Missed Durham offer - is it worth calling?

[RightWhoWantsABoiledEgg]

DD had a deferred offer at Durham for English. Offer was AA plus A star in English. Results were AAB, but importantly, she didnt get an A star in English Lit and Durham offer was lost.

There were reasons for this slightly lower performance (although not the B and we may ask for a remark). She was poorly for 2/3 of the exams for one subject (GP visit and medication confirms this) - had an A star for the first paper and As for the ones where she was poorly. Special consideration was meant to be requested, but don’t know if it was done.

More importantly, for English, there was an issue with the biggest mark question on one of the papers. The school does a very unusual combination of books, that very few schools opt for, for the comparative paper. In the exam, the big mark question had no relevant theme to compare the books by. All students were confused and said they’d had to wing it. School never reached out about it. Either the school messed up and missed a theme, or the exam board messed up in failing to ensure a theme that was relevant to this combination was included. An A in these circumstances seems pretty decent.

This is by way of asking if it is worth her calling Durham up to discuss and explain? Will they even entertain excuses and discuss a deferred offer? As the school hasn’t ever addressed the question issue (it is a very high performing grammar school so may not want to appear lacking), should she approach the school first to ascertain if they would support what she is saying about the problem with the question?

She worked so hard and feels like she has failed. She could resit and is considering this, but would Durham even consider her next year as she has failed to meet their standard once already?

Thank you Mysocksaredotty. You are right, of course. She has not wanted to celebrate to date, as she sees the results as underachieving. It is horribly sad for her and a huge contrast to GCSEs, where her confidence was so low that she didn’t apply to stay for sixth form at her grammar school, as she didn’t think she would reach the entry limits. Her reaction and joy were quite beautiful to see in a child whose confidence had been wrecked by bullying and eating issues. I so much wished for her to achieve her predictions, not for the Durham offer, but to reinforce her new-found confidence. We’re not back to square one, but she has taken a bit of a knock the last few days.

Eating issues as in an eating disorder that's been going on for a while? If so then please take her to see a professional, a psychiatrist and psychologist. It might be best for her to defer her year and heal from the ED and gain a good amount of weight. She'll end up relapsing at uni otherwise. An elitist uni might worsen her ED.

Agree, you should call for peace of mind that you have done all you can.
But be prepared for further rejection.
Durham are very strict and inflexible these days.
When you call admissions it will also be a (very nice) person who is unable to deviate from standard decisions and processes. You will need to try to get someone from the department which will require more resilience.

They are fine to speak to you as well (admissions line) so you could do the call at this stage. I would suggest if you get to the department then your daughter would need to do the talking.
Fellow Mum of heart set on Durham slightly missed grades and extenuating circs from last year daughter whio went elsewhere and is loving it... couldn't be anywhere else 😀

Some quite disturbing things being posted about Durham. A couple of colleagues went there (neither from affluent backgrounds) and they both speak really highly of it (although have mentioned it being small). It’s not ideal to read how PS boys behave. Although I went to a London college with a reasonable proportion of PS boys and remember similar (relating to getting with the ‘ugliest’ girl - they all thought themselves as oil paintings, obviously). All very grim. Not sure how DD would react to sure behaviour tbh.

English Lit at Durham is currently in clearing for international students only.

The UCAS historical grades checker suggests that they might accept AAB, but that most students have much higher grades.

https://digital.ucas.com/coursedisplay/courses/6ffaaa09-d117-3ee5-1266-9f3951c1423c?academicYearId=2025

It’s a very long shot but your DD might as well call Durham, as long as she can cope with being turned down.

On the pastoral care front, I’m not sure that Durham would be up there.

Lancaster has a collegiate system and a good reputation for pastoral care - might be worth a look?

Definitely call Durham, but do get a move on!!!!

Interesting. Also anecdotally, last year one dropped grade and you were rejected.... i lnow many cases...and the courses were in clearing at the original grades. It was such a mess last year... All works out for the best!

Please - recent experience of Durham and its pastoral/ mental health handling and approach mean I would not encourage a vulnerable ds or dd to go anywhere near the place. See also Bristol although its poor reputation on this is better known.

I don't think she'll get anywhere with Durham OP, I think your best bet is to call the school. But be prepared that the school may or may not take the circumstances into consideration for the error, as if they say yes to your DD and recognise the error then to make it fair for everybody else, surely they're have to remark all papers sat for that specific exam.
I don't think a call to Durham will be beneficial, especially if your DD is going through an ED and is feeling fragile mentally. The chances of Durham mitigating the circumstances are small. As PP have said it's oversubscribed at best. With that to consider I don't think it would be good to subject DD to that when she is feeling so fragile herself.

I would show her pointers from this thread, advise her to take a year out to heal and get professional help for what she's going through, and slowly edge her to her back up option. Still a fantastic option to go for. She has fantastic grades, if she can slowly start to come to terms that Durham isn't an option, (which maybe a call to the school will confirm) then she may slowly come around to the idea of another university. She's got a whole year to process this, so there's no rush for her.

Absolutely 100 % agree with this , regards Durham and Bristol

Shocking lack of pastoral care from both Unis ime (in the last 8 and 3 years - undergrad and postgrad)

Also the collegiate system is weird and because Durham isn't Oxbridge it's all a bit aspirational and trying too hard

I'd suggest your daughter works for her year off and looks around at other unis

Just FYI - Sheffield or Exeter well worth a look

She has ‘disordered eating’ rather than an eating disorder. It began during the bullying. Basically, if she wants/needs to leave the house, she will not eat until she is home (with no chance of going out again). She will not eat and leave the house, or eat out. So, if she has afterschool plans, she might eat for the first time at 10pm. During term time, she would eat for the first time at 4pm. If she goes for a sleepover, she won’t eat until the next day. Obviously, I’d expect her to be out many evenings when at university, which would likely result in weight loss (she has put on weight in the last year, thank goodness). She eats normally when she’s home all day. She has had counselling and has made a little progress (she are a single piece of popcorn at the cinema recently and was over the moon), but it’s not consistent, due to school/revision/exams taking over.

@RightWhoWantsABoiledEgg Sorry to hear what’s happened. MH is of primary importance though.

Our DD was also rejected by Cambridge. It was her firm choice. Durham was insurance. She waited until end of play Friday for final Cambridge decision so has missed all clearing places. Too much to take in and DD has retired to room and says she doesn’t want to think about it all. It’s a rubbish system.

I think you need to speak to the school first and find out whether they did submit the special considerations, whether they are appealing the moderation and also raise the comment about the book. I would address the first two points to the exams officer and the last to the HoD or Headteacher. This will then give you some information to decide how to approach Durham.

Everyone of my DC’s friends who just fell short of their Durham requirements has been binned off by them. Upon calling up, they were told clearing was only for international students.

Whilst I understand that they need international money, this seems unfair on British DC. Why does a Brit DC’s place, suddenly become an international student place in clearing? Also, wouldn’t the grade requirements be possibly lower than that of rejected DC?

I think people need to complain about them, and see if they are acting fairly.

So sorry for your situation Violasrule. DD made the pool at Cambridge, but was ultimately rejected. It was pretty brutal, but she bounced back, so I know she’ll cope with this disappointment too, if she is to. It is a rubbish system, but I don’t know what could replace it. I really hope you find a good path for your DD. It’s horrible to see them upset with such great grades.

Honestly, all unis have this culture to some extent. It's just newsworthy when it's public school boys. Lots of boys, in groups and living alone for the first time fall into very similar attitudes imo. As she's having a year out, it would be good to build her resilience as much as possible if you think that will be an issue.

Also, imo, unis talk the talk when it comes to pastoral care, but there are so many students you are mostly a number. They don't particularly care if you don't perform. I'd be surprised if a phone call to Durham got you anywhere and it might upset your DD more. I'd be strongly praising her and taking excitedly about how great her 2nd choice will be.

Uni is the stepping stones into "real life" in a lot of ways. It's probably the first time lots of young people realise "the world" doesn't particularly care about their individual circumstances. It's a tough lesson

@RightWhoWantsABoiledEgg

She sounds very bright, OP.

Can you say what she is planning during her year out, as you say that she was holding a deferred place for next year? I wasn't sure whether she had plans to find work locally or volunteer in some way.

Has she had any thoughts about what she might like to do after reading English at Uni?

You must be heartened by the progress. I think the biggest issue - and perhaps you are already aware - is that the universities simply will not deal with parents at all. They are correct that undergrads are adults and have a right to privacy etc etc. But the same universities' offer an absence of care/counselling/pastoral services. And the prob is that undergrads - many of them awsy from home for the first time - enter a vortex/spiral of depression. Often parents are the ones who pick up the signs even from afar. They urge DCs to get help but there is a vacuum. And when they try to alert a tutor for example they are brickwalled. It is a mess.

OP, I think your daughter should take a year out (as she plans to do anyway) but without the pressure of resitting and apply again to other universities with the grades she currently has, which are absolutely excellent. Academically speaking it is really not going to make a difference to her future success whether she goes to Durham/Royal Holloway/Exeter/Bristol/wherever, but she can’t go to uni with the eating difficulties you describe. Living in halls or shared accommodation of any kind, socialising and working will be impossible, and she will get really unwell really quickly.

On the uni front itself, Durham is very sloaney and elitist and may or may not suit her. It’s hard to tell really with any of these places until she starts, which is why focussing on her getting properly well first has to be the most important thing. York is a nice uni which I think is a bit less public school dominated than Durham. Edinburgh? Sheffield? There are so many nice places. Well done to her for getting to this point.

TheSquareMile - her ultimate aim is publishing, with a dream to be an author herself in the very distant future. I understand fiction publishing is very competitive (although what isn’t these days!?), which is why she wanted Eng Lit at one of the top universities. She is a hard worker and very capable of achieving a first/2:1. We have no connections to publishing, so she’d need to stand out on her own merits (which is fine, but just noting that we can’t do anything other than be supportive).

For her year out she is applying for a short internship with a publisher, hopefully finding a job (to increase her confidence at talking to folk, rather than the money) and hopefully travelling (visiting family/friends overseas rather than interrailing type travel). Also, of course, addressing the eating issue.

I know two young people who have just graduated from Durham. One a very bright, fairly tough and very sporty woman who hated her time there. She felt suffocated by the dominance of the rah rah public school male mentality in her subject and it affected her mental health so much that she’s gone elsewhere to do her Masters. She tried to get support for the issues she was experiencing but found the uni lacking in this regard.
The other is a fairly average male who joined whole heartedly in the rah rah superior behaviour. He left with a 2:2 (which he loudly blames the uni for!), is completely insufferable now and has just been let go from his first job because of his arrogance, according to his mum.
What I’m saying is, Durham may not be the best place for your daughter - it sounds full on if you’re not part of the right crowd - and may prove to be a setback to her mental health. Although not what she had her heart set on, it may be a narrow escape.
I hope she comes to terms with it soon, doesn’t blame herself and also makes progress in recovering from her eating disorder.

@RightWhoWantsABoiledEgg

In the light of what you have said about her career plans, I'm wondering whether she would want to consider King's College.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/english-ba

I see no reason why she shouldn't apply via UCAS this autumn.

Being at King's would mean a certain proximity to where a lot of publishers are based and the chance to at least understand more about the nature of their business.

On a different note, if she would benefit from expert support with the disordered eating, she would find that through King's too.

My dd went to Newcastle. Fantastic pastoral support for her mh. She did English lit and loved it. Didn't crack publishing unfortunately though she works in public health now!!

Thank you everyone for your responses. Definite food for thought there. Maybe other places would be a better fit for her. Durham appealed because it’s small, but maybe wouldn’t offer the support she’d need. I’ll have a chat with her about it all. I think she’ll still opt for resits, as I think she’ll struggle to get beyond the feeling of underachieving (she can’t talk about her grades without getting watery eyed). I could be wrong though.

@RightWhoWantsABoiledEgg

Will she retake just the English, OP or one of the other subjects too? I'm not sure what the other two were, apologies if I have missed that.

I'm wondering whether there is a nice tutor in your area who would be free to do an evening a week with her, starting in the autumn. That might be the boost she needs re her grades. Also, I think that she would find that supportive in various ways.