Some universities will go bust

[GinForBreakfast]

Reported in the Times today. It must be so worrying for students joining or returning in September/October.

My question is around the regulator, who knows where the issues are. What should they be telling students and when? It seems cruel, especially to young people, to withhold information. It has financial implications as well - people moving, paying deposits etc.

I was there of nursing, midwifery, medical, physio, OT, etc. I can promise you they don’t find their placements and it wouldn’t be appropriate.

No, just unnecessary.

Not in my experience, where I work they’re directly employed. Even if they were outsourced who do you think ultimately pays for them? The university will do by paying the umbrella company.

Maybe just treat 18 year olds as adults, and allocate choices based on grades?

How many students are 18 when they apply to university? My DC was 16 years old. He could have been applying at 15. But even if you aren’t in Scotland most will only be 17. So legally children.

Good motivated students don't have a problem identifying universities, I even managed it 25+ years ago.

Tbh this tells me everything I need to know. The sector has changed significantly and you can't compare what we have now to your experience of apply to and attending university.
Your views are completely outdated.

Schools can advise on all of the above,
Except this isn't entirely true. This is my specific area of expertise and I can tell you that schools don't have the knowledge or resources. They rely on universities to provide information on all aspects of applying to university.

and lets face it the information is easily available.

Again, it's not as simple. I've researched this extensively and i found that young people find the sheer volume of information overwhelming. This is particularly true for first generation students who struggle to navigate to huge amount of information and don't have the benefit of parents having been through the system before them,
Universities play a big part in making this information accessible through their schools liaison and outreach programmes.

Kindly, if you need this level of help, you're not uni material - use it as part of selection to ensure people have basic life skills.

Kindly, you don't know what you're talking about.

There’s an opportunity to save money right there then. Along with catering, payroll etc.

No, just unnecessary.

How long have you worked in the HE sector? How many universities have you worked at?
@Satsuma89

Because based on your posts I'm not sure you're the best person the decide what is or isn't necessary.

You've given me a good laugh though.

Don't visit schools and advise, simply let the students get on with it. The universities aren't hidden - in reality you're trying to compete for students to get their money - its not for their benefit

If we did that we wouldn't be able to have our Access and participation plans approved. No APP, no charge higher fees. Again, we're back to uni being for the elite sharp-elbowed. Not for kids from poorer backgrounds. But I'm guessing you don't really care about equality of opportunity 🤷‍♀️

There’s an opportunity to save money right there then. Along with catering, payroll etc.

How? Outsourcing is more expensive. Or are you suggesting unis don't bother having cleaners or payroll or security staff?

This is an interesting thread. The folks working in universities act as if they are the only stakeholders in this situation, and seem to adamant that there is no room to innovate or cut back. The other stakeholders simply must foot the bill.

For smart people, you all seem a little flat footed here.

Unless you're suggesting every uni needs to visit every school, I don't believe this is beyond the school pastoral system to explain what is already easily available on websites. I'm pretty confident my teenager can research what she wants to do and apply for what's needed - she manages to do this for everything else she's interested in.

At uni, they are all 18 - so no need for anything any other functioning adult doesn't have. if you can't be interested in a subject and work at it with devotion, work out how to budget, use websites to get services, rent a room, feed yourself etc., I really have to question whether you should be at university.

@ElaineMBenes Yes. The sector is bloated and too big. Post 92 unis have caused some of this. We actually were ok with polys and unis. What we didn’t need was HE colleges becoming unis. We’ve gone too far. However if dc cannot work out predicted grades and suitable unis we have a problem, I agree some dc take a less challenging route but they also are making an informed choice on what suits them. Not what suits you.

At uni, they are all 18

Like many many Scottish students, my DC was 17 years old when he started - he didn’t turn 18 for several months. He could have gone at 16: I know several who have.

The uni prioritised 16 and 17 year olds for space in halls as they couldn’t take on a tenancy with a private landlord.

Greetings from across the water in Ireland. Watching with great interest the situation in the UK because the same has happened here - too many unis and a falling young population, despite inward migration. The uni I'm in is very concerned.

I came from a poor deprived background, and didn't need these things. It's just pointless expense that drives up the costs for everyone.

If you are motivated - you will find a way (and its not hard) - just need to apply yourself, choose a course, get the grades and go. It's very exciting, lots of forms, but the one thing you don't need is someone putting in plans to try and social engineer the system - just focus on teaching those motivated to get there.

This is an interesting thread. The folks working in universities act as if they are the only stakeholders in this situation, and seem to adamant that there is no room to innovate or cut back. The other stakeholders simply must foot the bill.

Not at all.
Speaking from my experience we are constantly trying innovate. It's a very important aspect of what we do.. it's the purpose of a university!

We also understand the need to cut back. We've been doing it for a long time. My university is on its 3rd round of redundancies in 2 years. We've cut back as much as we can. There is no slack left in the system.

This thread has turned into people whose only experience university being their own experience, telling us how to do our jobs. Telling us that vital services which are there to support students should be scrapped.

Not to mention the most ridiculous suggestion of all - that every subject should just have one academic recording lectures every few years to be accessed by all students across the country!!!

I came from a poor deprived background, and didn't need these things. It's just pointless expense that drives up the costs for everyone.

Me too. Point is that it's now one of the many many many regulatory requirements we have to do. If you don't like it, tell the OfS.

@Satsuma89 widening participation is not social engineering.

I'm very openly advocating changing the system because of the costs, whilst you are just saying it is how its is.

I'm suggesting that the current system is outdated and the staff in it cannot seem to see any way to make it more effective.

If you don't believe in the requirements, then state that they are an unnecessary expense and should be scrapped.

Here you go. I doubt the uni I went to donkeys years ago had to comply with this lot. https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/publications/regulatory-framework-for-higher-education-in-england/part-v-guidance-on-the-general-ongoing-conditions-of-registration/

If you don't believe in the requirements, then state that they are an unnecessary expense and should be scrapped.

Half the stuff in that OfS link is unnecessary and very costly and I would be delighted if the regulator agreed and we could get on with the job of providing decent quality, research informed teaching, relevant to the needs of employers and graduates, local, national and international.

Lol no

Anyone working at a university has ideas about how to save money and be more innovative. It's just that because we actually work at universities we don't suggest stupid things like stop doing all research, don't let more than one university teach a subject, eliminate the social sciences, or just hire a couple people to manage £1 billion in finances.

Personally I'd like to get rid of a lot of pointless admin, then I'd have time to put together an online short course on a very trendy topic, that could bring in some money. Colleagues could do more consulting and grant applications. Let us focus on what we're good at and we'll get more funding in!

The issue is you are making cuts but not changing the system. You are simply scaling an ineffective system downwards.

If you cannot work out how to change it to work, then someone is going to have to come in and tell you how to do it. It happens in all industries - first direct revolutionised branchless banking, and you still have bank staff saying people need as many counters - yet almost nobody uses them.

More people want to access He education, the world expects now more people to be educated to this level.

(And India has a very educated workforce, and does exactly the type of practices regarding central access of resources you seem unable to consider).

Considering only teaching, and the fewer hours involved, the independence expected from adults, for non-lab based courses, why does uni cost more than a 6th form?

The government cut funding to universities and introduced tuition fees, capped the fees for home students so they haven't caught up with inflation, and stopped overseas students from bringing over their families - I've pointed out in another post how this has deterred postgraduate students looking to advance their career in their home country by studying here.

It's silly to put the expectation upon the academic staff to come up with ways to change the system. That's not our job and universities are not a business model or a local authority. Take it up with the government who makes decisions about university costs while expecting universities at the same time to get their affairs in order on their own.

Considering only teaching, and the fewer hours involved, the independence expected from adults, for non-lab based courses, why does uni cost more than a 6th form?

Numerous people have explained why but apparently you don't agree.

If you can't see the difference between a 6th form and a university then this feels like a pointless conversation.