Question for Oxford students/parents

[kitnkaboodle]

My DD did a year at Oxford and failed a couple of papers at the end of the first year. Wasn't able to resit them last September (long story) so suspended for a year and resat them this June. Has just heard that she's passed, thank goodness, and can go back this autumn.
Can someone please confirm for me (because she is quite cagey about it all) that it is only these first year exams that are make-or-break to such an extent?? I realise that if she had failed these resits then her Oxford career would have been over. It has been a stressful year for all of us, and I just wondered if there was any chance that she could find herself in this situation again, or if ... while there's always the chance of coming out with a poor final grade ... she is now there to stay? Appreciate that I might be wrong, and would appreciate a jargon-free explanation of the exam system there! I'd prefer not to disclose the subject, but maybe that's relevant?? Thanks in advance.

I hate to say it but the second and third year are more important, more difficult and the stakes much higher. Marks will go to her final classification, and there may be a minimum above the pass threshold in order to progress.

Whatever issues she had that led to the resits are they fully resolved? There's no shame in rethinking what she does next.

I don't have specific knowledge about Oxford, but I'm sure you'll realise if you apply logic to the situation, that the second and third years are not going to be less high-stakes than the first year.

Maybe! DD's subject doesn't have second-year exams, so nothing counts towards the final year.

titchy it entirely depends on the subject at Oxford. By no means all subjects have exams in the second year.

OP your DD can relax as far as exams go, assuming hers is a subject examined entirely in her final year, but her tutors will be watching her performance in tutorials and if she fails to produce written work for tutorials or if it's consistently substandard then they may suggest she thinks about whether or not Oxford is the right path for her.

OP -
I understand you might not feel comfortable disclosing your daughter’s subject, but it is really hard to answer the question without that knowledge as there is a lot of variability.
Some Humanities subjects still only have 1st and 3rd exams, but the 3rd year exams will give you your entire degree classification so are much more make or break.
I’d strongly suggest she reaches out to her tutors and to the welfare and study support teams in her college to see what she can do to avoid getting into a similar situation next year.

You can also search the regular specific to her degree. In my field, there are only Finals, and they determine your degree classification. But as a PP says, tutors use the weekly supervisions to assess progress.

As PP said - it varies by subject. Ring that pastoral team at her college - I found them excellent.

Or, better, ask your daughter to ring them. Tutors and welfare officers far prefer to deal with the student direct - not least because if they discuss a student with the parent and the student then says they didn’t want the parent to be told anything, the welfare officer could get into a lot of trouble. If you do talk to them direct you may need to reassure them that you are calling with your daughter’s knowledge and consent and she may need to confirm she is happy for them to discuss her case with you.

As others have said: if she's a scientist/mathematician, she'll likely have exams that matter every year. If she's humanities (English, history, languages, law etc) then generally it's just one set of "prelims" and then you're in the clear til finals.

If you hop on the Oxford university website and search by undergraduate degree type you can probably figure out what the cadence of exams is, or as others have said give the college a call.

As others have said - it's really rough dropping a year at Oxford, so I can understand why your dd might be feeling cagey. Important that she gets proper support now to catch up and get back into the swing of college life, that her tutors are looking after her and she feels she has the resources she needs to sustain her academic career there.

Also if she is having a crap time and continuing to struggle - not the end of the world if Oxford is not for her. Had a pal who failed out of her maths degree and went on to get a first from Sheffield, and was much happier doing so.

You or she should definitely discuss with her college asap what the precise terms of her return are. As pp mentioned, different subjects follow different patterns for exams, but different tutors and colleges may also add stipulations to a return agreement. Although Prelims/Mods and Finals are the only ‘big’ exams for a number of subjects, there are also Collections (termly tests, in most cases), which different tutors and colleges may place more or less emphasis on. These tend not to affect the final marks but her college may set its own requirements about her performance on them. It’s definitely worth a detailed conversation (and ideally something written down), so that she knows what’s expected and whether it is something she can and wants to stick with.

Thanks for the helpful replies. There is no doubt in her mind that she wants to return, having gone through all the trouble of resits and a year's wait for them. I will try to have a meaningful conversation today about whether she feels that is definitely the right decision, and whether she feels she has addressed the issues that caused her to fail the first time.
It's a science subject and I've looked on the department website now and it seems like, yes, significant exams every year

Putting it in really crude terms, and cutting to the chase for the sake of clarification! ... can students at Oxford, who have passed the first year, actually get thrown out subsequently for underperforming academically, or are they just allowed to rumble on and come out with a bad grade?

Colleges tend to have an academic support and discipline path so that if a student is clearly underperforming, and informal support is not working, there is a formal path for addressing that. Ultimately that could lead to a student being suspended or sent down but that is extremely rare and would only come after failure of other forms of support. Colleges are independent institutions so the detail will change but here is an example of a college process https://lincoln.ox.ac.uk/asset/student-handbook.pdf - see page 8 and then the links from there. Her college is very likely to have something similar.

If she has public exams in Year 2, she would need to pass those in order to progress to Year 3.
Otherwise, yes you can still be thrown out for underperforming academically, but it would be a longer and more convoluted route and there would be various stages and opportunities to get back on track again. Colleges do not want to throw people out, but they also don't want to let them rumble on and fail their Finals, leading to them finishing with no degree at all, and having therefore wasted years of their lives and vast amounts fo money. She should check her College's academic disciplinary policy carefully.
If there is a serious prospect of her coming back only to fail, she and you need to have a serious conversation about whether this is in her interests (she may be happier and do better elsewhere) and she needs to be proactive about trying to get support within her College.

Not quite the same as I read a humanity many years ago but I failed a prelims paper and had to resit it and came out 2 years later with the top first so all is far from lost. (I am just rubbish at one particular aspect of my discipline that counted in Prelims but was not needed for any subsequent part of my degree - which might be your DD's situation in which case she may be able to pick her topics to specialise out of it.)

Agree though with PPs that it would be helpful for your DD to reach out to her academic and moral (do they still call pastoral support that? tutors now and ask for a discussion about her return to college/any work etc she could be doing over the long vac which would put her in a good position for her return.

Also Colleges often have study skills/ academic mentors, who are specifically employed to support students who need extra help, which can be with relatively ordinary things like working on time management or notetaking skills. Welfare and academic support is now a huge part of a College's budget and there will be people keen to help. But it takes the student to acknowledge they would benefit from that help and to be proactive about engaging with what's available. Some students feel awkward about coming forward, whether because they don't want to admit they are struggling or think that support is only for people who are doing worse than them, so if your daughter is in that category, do encourage her to reach out.
Her tutors will be aware that she has had a year out after failing exams and so will presumably talk to her at the start of term about how to help her settle back into studying and a plan to keep her on track.

Thanks, everyone, particularly for the suggestion that she proactively contact college about supporting her return. I wouldn't have thought of that. She's terribly shy, and being proactive in approaching people is never easy for her, but I'll try to persuade her. That definitely needs to be done by her not me. Will tutors and welfare people still be there? Are there people in college all summer??

People will be there in the summer, but you may get a slower response, as it's also the time when everyone will be taking their annual leave and tutors also will be trying to catch up on their research. So she will definitely get a response, it's just that the right person to talk to may happen to be off for a couple of weeks.

Definitely people there through the summer, getting on with stuff in the relative absence of students. DD has miraculously had several answers from her tutor within hours rather than his usual days or weeks.

My DS studied law at Oxford and recently graduated.

After his first year law moderation exams, it was only his final exams in the last semester of third year that counted towards his degree classification. It was a very high pressure end.

I hope things work out.

You can be rusticated in any year of your degree - not just for failing exams that go towards your final degree result, but also for not turning up to tutorials, not handing in work of an appropriate standard on time, not turning up to science practicals, regularly doing badly in your college collections (internal exams to assess progress at the start of each term). It doesn’t have to be just for failing university-wide exams. She should definitely reach out for pastoral support to help enable a smooth, successful return.

Good luck to everyone on here! :)

DC has 9 A at GCSE (40/60 9s and 8s), plays competitive sports and is keen on economics having studied Physics, Maths and History. Predicted Astar Astar A with likely A* in EPQ (know it doesn't count!) with some relevant work experience.

She feels she is not of the sufficient academic level for Oxford and suffers a bit from low esteem in this respect, probably partly due to having some real whizz kids in her year.

I know the entry is to a large degree dependent on the actual grades (guess GCSEs) and entry test.

If she suddenly decides she wants to apply, how much time did successful applicants on here spend on prepping for the TSA Part 1 (and how difficult is it compared with other, similar tests)?

@lbwagain ... you'll get more replies to your query if you start a new thread with a new subject line, I think

Or if you join the applicant threads