Could work ethic be the one thing schools could teach to really change results

[gofigure5]

Sometimes when looking at my DC and talking to other parents who lament the lack of work ethic/drive (for academics) in their children too, it seems a topic that comes up very frequently.

I should add that these kids are all at an academic (independent) school and and did very well in primary and went on to have grammar school offers so they certainly have the potential to achieving highly.

Issue is, they still, at 15/16/18, tend to procrastinate and be very uneven in their application towards study.

At home we talk about the importance of effort. I do get frustrated when I see they only put in the bare minimum. DC have class mates who are super bright and don't do much work (or at least they say they don't) but most of the others are not necessarily brighter than them at all but they do seem to put an enormous amount of effort and hours into their work and so reap the benefits.

My DC's school, and I suppose many schools, teach study/revision skills and talk about the importance of setting out what to do, time tabling and using past papers.

But when I look at the common denominator amongst my friends and our children who seem not to be reaching their potential, it's this lack of drive/work ethic (and instead their procrastination) that seems to be what sets them apart from those who are successful.

We have noticed that, generally speaking, children of teachers ALL seem to work consistently hard and get great results (even those who are 'average'. Teacher kids are clearly not all naturally super bright; some are, some are not, as would be expected amongst all groups, but there seems to be this ingredient which means they work consistently hard with a steely drive and work ethic).

Both my DH and I are driven, our kids see us work hard, help others and volunteering in sports/the community and we always frame things in terms of working hard rather than talking about 'intelligence'. At times we do discuss results (and might ask what was achieved v the class average score) which I guess is a no-no.

Would love to know if there are schools out there that actively teach working hard/drive/work ethic (and, if so, how do they do it) AND what teacher parents/grandparents do that seems to produce such hard working children who go on to do so well.

Great post, OP! I think it is a difficult question. Realised as I was reading that DSis is a teacher and 2 of her 3 DC fit your description of teachers’ children, while the 3rd is not a huge procrastinator either.

Looking forward to the responses

@poetryandwine Thanks, it's an fascinating topic and I look forward to seeing what people have to say. Interesting to hear your family story (DSis) too.

It's an interesting question. I'm not really sure whether it's something that schools can teach though.

From what I have observed, a lot of it comes down to parenting/family culture. Maybe some genetic factors. And probably a dose of luck.

@ExasperatedManager I agree genetics must play a part but it's the teacher-in-the-family aspect that seems to indicate a strong environmental factor (amongst the handful of teachers I know, not all are the 'naturally' driven individuals but they seem to have produced children who are). Definite cultural factors at play too, but again that's environmental.

What is the magic ingredient? How do we replicate it? If schools don't, perhaps this is what should be looked at as revision skills might be less important if you get the work ethic/drive balance right?

Teacher.

With mine it wasn't enough to talk about the importance of effort. I did reading/homework music practice with them from a very young age (4) and they got stickers for it that went for toys. As well as lots of praises

After about ten years of me supervising/helping//accompanying on the piano it got internalised.

Ah, this is interesting. I did wonder about the hands-on involvement at that early age might be a part of it.

Of course, we did reading, spelling etc at home but other than that we let the kids get on with their own homework. That did mean that they sometimes handed in less-than-perfect work.

It might be endemic in the organisational culture of independent and grammar schools because generally this early life advantage leads to good careers even if coasting along and not being very good. We get carbon copies of Paula Vennels and Iain Duncan Smith who only have top jobs by being the right class and having gone to the right schools. Their incompetence only comes to light if it causes massive damage and ruins lives.

Bright kids in State schools have really good work ethic because they know they have to work twice as hard to look half as good.

I think it's complacency in many cases. The kids have never known hard times or what it's like to be poor. Everything is handed to them on a plate that they could possibly want or need.

Hard times make strong men, good times make weak men, doesn't the saying go?

@gofigure5

Although I supervised homework and would help, mine often handed in less than perfect homework.
They didn't get any homework other than readings and spelling until they were in year 2 so we were two years into the reading every single day/do spellings every single day and music practice every day by that point.

My son is autistic and was obsessed by music when he was young (he is now a musician). They both (I had twins) started on piano when they began school and then he was desperate to start cornet so he started that age 5.

So after school we had the usual swimming/beavers/football and play dates but we read and did spellings every day and he practiced piano and cornet every day (with me).

Surely if a subject is taught in an interesting and engaging way, the kids will want to learn. I'd rather they stopped with the straitjacket of how things are taught.

And kids need to see a point to learning. If they can't see a future, why would they bother? So reinstate the schools careers service and blow their minds as to the opportunities that are out there. Show them there is something to aim for.

Discredit the Tiktok rubbish that the boomers have taken all the jobs and the next generation is doomed.

And set an example of good work ethic. My ds sees me working long hours, being committed to my job and enjoying it. I want him to understand that work can be satisfying as well as financially rewarding.

And then admire and encourage work. Don't demand perfection but recognise effort.

The thing is, I'm not convinced that there is one magic ingredient that will work for all kids.

My dd is very driven. Always has been, I think it's largely down to her innate personality. DH and I are both pretty driven too (definitely innate in his case) so she has grown up in an environment where striving to do your best has always been valued and encouraged. However, she has also grown up with two parents who don't have a single pushy bone in either of their bodies. And a mother who, while being incredibly driven and high achieving, also procrastinates for England (adhd). Her drive is very much intrinsic, and I think she would react very badly to any external pressure to work hard...it would be utterly counter-productive.

Meanwhile, my Chinese friend is rather the stereotypical Tiger mother. Lots of enforced work/music practice from a very early age, huge emphasis on high expectations, very pushy by her own admission. Now her dc are older, they seem to have internalised this and work hard of their own accord without her having to push.

Very different parenting styles but similar outcomes. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I often wonder if I would have been a much pushier parent if I had had a different child!!

There must be 1,000s of bright kids in state schools who don't achieve their potential too due to lack of work ethic?

Also, being average in a highly academic grammar or indie might be quite demoralising. But that is where the pushing of work ethic/working hard might actually make a difference.

I think there may be something in this. We are lucky enough to be financially very comfortable but DH came from an extremely disadvantaged background and I think this has definitely helped dd not to take her opportunities for granted. Some of her more privileged friends do seem more complacent.

You can't teach work ethic it's something intrinsic and can be different in different circumstances. For example my 1st child (I have 9) has an exemplary work ethic for academic work. She's currently doing a masters by correspondence, got a 1st in her bio med sci degree, worked hard in school and out. Her work ethic for the mundane house work of cleaning a bathroom is, however, terrible! Her brother (next in ages) has ADHD - his work ethic at school was minimal! Worked somewhat in lessons, never did homework, never revised and didn't want to go to uni. Now he's in work, however, his work ethic is brilliant and he's earning 40k base at 21 and buying his own home.
In my opinion work ethic is a complex intermix of genetic make-up, situation and economic need.

We moved our son's school because although he would have done "okay" where he was even the teachers were prepared tk accept average from kids who could easily achieve highly. You were geeky if you let on you worked.

At his new school the kids all worked hard and it was OK to say you couldn't go out because you had homework to do. It became the norm and my son conformed to "this norm".

Expectations and aspirations and like minded peers meant he left with full marks at gcse and A level when similar level peers at his original school had grades a fair bit lower.

Unfortunately depending on the school crowd control takes a lot of time away from teaching so where the crowd doesn't need control or at least less control kids thrive. Again this is why streaming works for the more able but not the less.

Yes, I think there are plenty of privileged kids who coast in state comprehensives as well.

When you say kids want to learn....

Sort of.

They do. But learning something like reading and writing requires little and often practice pretty much every day. The more practice you do the better.

Humans generally are not good at that. People are bad at taking pills every day - they forget or get fed up with it. They're bad at sticking to diets.

Humans are interested in shiny new things and getting on with their peers and social status.

So in primary the reading and the writing comes in really small doses and then increases as the kids get older and have got more used to it.

Very few people like going to the gym to work through a series of exercises on their own, there's a whole industry based on making exercise interesting enough that people actually do it. Schools also need to do this. Doing a whole page of maths calculations is boring to most people. Schools are there to make it interesting - either through competition or making it a game or embedding it in an investigation.

Fundamentally hard work is hard and boring and most people don't like it. So if you want your kid to overcome that you need to make it either a way to get parental attention (which young kids want) or make it more interesting.

Mine are at state school and dd1 works bloody hard as did dh and I. Got top GCSEs and is currently working extremely hard for a
levels. She’s very driven. Was sitting in a billionaires palatial sitting room and the mum was bemoaning that her own year 12 son was basically not working at all. Hmmm!

I agree with this. I don't think schools can teach work ethic per se, but if they focus on teaching in engaging ways, kids are more likely to respond.

And teenagers need to see a point to doing anything. In some schools homework doesn't get marked or returned, so why do it. Kids hear about all the horrible things in their future, why bother doing anything. Kids see their parents working jobs that they don't like, why work hard just to end up like that.

I know teachers whose kids are going off the rails so I wouldn't count too much on that correlation.

There must be 1,000s of bright kids in state schools who don't achieve their potential too due to lack of work ethic?

Usually the bright but academically lazy kids are from deprived areas and know there is no opportunity for higher education, no opportunity for a good career. No point working hard to end up next to the lazy kid working down at the care home or at the recycling depot or the Amazon warehouse.

I don’t think there’s any one right answer. And I think a good amount of it is innate in someone’s personality. Also I think it’s something a lot of people discover with maturity.

I’ve seen Tiger parenting work. I’ve also seen it backfire.

I think parents being being results-oriented helps. I know it’s not fashionable, but if you want your kids to value results as well as working hard, you have to value results.

I definitely think there’s an issue of privilege = coasting. One of my friends recently moaned to me that none of their kids (16-25) work hard. And unfortunately I thought well they’ve never had to, they know their parents are loaded and will always bail them out. Whereas the friend themselves grew up very poor and worked phenomenally hard to become very wealthy. The teachers kids in a private school are probably amongst those with the least family money!

I think perhaps people have to see a point in working hard. Either because they perceive that it will enable them to improve their circumstances, help them to achieve a goal or simply give them a real sense of achievement and satisfaction.

If they don't perceive that there is really anything in it for them, then surely the rational response is not to bother.

For my DH, the prize was a way out of the poverty in which he grew up. For my dd, I think it has more to do with the psychological reward of knowing that she has done her best/feeling proud of her achievements. One of her best friends at school didn't seem to share that approach... she worked really hard in the subjects that she perceived to be relevant to her future but didn't see the point in investing in the ones that weren't. So for dd, there was a value in the achievement itself, whereas for her friend, it was much more focused on a specific external goal. I have no idea where that difference came from though...whether it was innate or shaped by environmental factors etc.

we always frame things in terms of working hard rather than talking about 'intelligence'.

Parents need to teach this. I don't think teachers can without parents. Because it's not just school work. Every task at home, the message is 'practise makes perfect' and teaching DD that every mistake can be fixed and improved upon.

DD has ADHD and struggled with concentration and applying herself. We got her into things she liked, particularly art and music, and worked with teachers to get her to understand that effort = result. It took a long time and a lot of effort. We also avoided fluffy hippy music teachers and got an old school grumpy one who takes no shit. No excuses, no whining.

But parents have been told to praise and encourage and constantly tell their children how wonderful they are, without being specific. Schools can't repair everything.

A lot of this is about spoon feeding. The current education system is low trust so herds kids into centrally organised revision sessions and a linear exam system drives them towards a finite goal. Constant drumming of facts. It's quite Gradgrindian.

Modern kids can and do work very hard but not in a way that is very independent.

Oddly enough during Covid more of my sixth formers developed curiosity and read more widely!

My DS , 20, has an incredible work ethic but I wouldn't describe him as 'driven'. More dutiful.

By the way, I'm a teacher. Two children. Other DS is definitely not hard working or driven.