Finding Uni admissions a nightmare!

[FiveFoxes]

DH and I both went to University in the 90s. My memory was choose 6 universities by looking at the UCAS book, fill in UCAS form and wait for offers. Accept a firm and insurance offer. Get A Level results. Apply for accommodation and start.

DS wants to do either Maths or Computer Science. He is getting high grades in his tests and did excellently at GCSE and therefore is looking at Oxbridge, Russell Group and similar.

Wow. Things are HARD these days and so complicated!

First off Open days where you have to register for each talk you want to go to and places are very limited so you have to get in early.

Secondly is all the admission tests. There are so many! And you have to pay for them it looks like? And some courses need them and some don't? Some might need more and interviews?!

And personal statements where they want you to have done other tests in the subject and attended conferences, entered competitions etc (all of which require you to know about and have the ability (not academic ability) to enter.

Not to mention Oxbridge colleges and how you choose that and (something I just read on MN) you can't apply to same ones as others from your 6th form..

And then there's student finance and accommodation and probably other things I haven't thought of.

Honestly it's as far away from an inclusive application process as I could imagine. It has been made as complicated and difficult as possible - it puts off those who don't go to proactive schools or have proactive parents. I feel overwhelmed by it all and I went to uni myself and am proactive! I don't know how other people manage.

Your problem is that your DS wants to do two of the hights competition courses, in the highest competition universities.

me and dh went to uni in the 90s as well

just been through all of the above in your post with my ds

wait until you see how much accommodation costs!

His choice of course and universities are making the process even harder.

DS didn’t need to do extra tests, interviews, relevant experience for his choices.

That's really not true. There will be one teat set my Oxford or Cambridge that they can sit at their school or college. All the other stuff isn't necessary to get an interview , high grades and performing well.at interview are what matters.

You can make it easy or complicated. During COVID by necessity, DD looked up on-line, and chose. Never visited. Yes, she did Oxbridge, and did an extra test and an interview. She didn't get in. Again, so much is on-line now, it's not beyond most to research. I think a lot of the barriers are psychological, in that it can be made to seem complicated, but it isn't, really, if you go with the flow. If they are applying to high end, academic courses, then it's a good insight into what's required once they get there!

It’s not all that different. Back in the 80s we picked 5 universities to put on the UCCA form (as was) and had to rank them. Certain unis got pissed off that they weren’t your first choice! It’s better now that they are not ranked and don’t see where else you have applied. We always had to do a personal statement, though if your DS is applying for 2025 entry he will be in the last cohort to complete it in its current form.

Exams for Oxbridge aren’t new. I took a General Paper and exams in 2 of my A-level subjects (plus 2 interviews) to get into Oxford. Also back then almost everywhere interviewed - now interviews are required at only the most competitive institutions and courses.

Open days weren’t a thing back then, but they are a good innovation. They are not compulsory, though, and you can visit whenever you want. Get DS to sign up to uni mailing lists so he doesn’t miss out on early booking. The UCAS newsletter is also useful to keep you up to date.

Not to mention Oxbridge colleges and how you choose that and (something I just read on MN) you can't apply to same ones as others from your 6th form.

He can make an open application if he doesn't want to pick a college. A very high percentage of applicants get a college they didn't choose anyway.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Even with us being proactive parents, it's hard!

And DDs college isn't helping. They're sending her info about conferences etc once they're already bloody full.

I'm fairly certain there is no rule saying you shouldn't apply to the same college as others from your sixth form. This may be some informal rule some schools and FE colleges try to impose, but it doesn't come from Oxford and Cambridge.

Mine is doing maths and computing science and has unconditional offers for 2 x RG unis, he didn’t have to do any additional tests.

I went to Cambridge in the mid 80s and I’m a secondary school teacher and mother of three DCs all of whom went to Russell Group Unis, The open days are optional, none of mine bothered with those. Oxbridge has always had entrance exams and interviews. I’d say the key difference is the personal statement but otherwise it’s really not that different.

Yes, it is unfortunate that he's favourite subjects are maths and computer science! Other DS wants to do Law (that's in the future) too so we'll have a nightmare there if he sticks to that!

The courses are very competitive but I am not sure they are selecting on ability when they have all these extra requirements - it's back door class selection really.

It's like saying grammar schools select by ability, but actually if you've never seen a verbal reasoning question before, you're at a massive disadvantage.

This is certainly right for Oxford (i.e. there is no rule against two people applying from the same school) and I would be very surprised if Cambridge were different. We make an enormous effort to ensure that the process is fair and leads to the best candidates getting offers, regardless of which college they applied to. Many are moved around colleges (before or during interviews) to assist in this. That may well mean that candidates from the same school will end up at the same college even if they did not do so originally.

The upshot is that college choice is not something to worry about. If a particular college appeals then put it down but open is also fine. Tutors really won’t care whether they were the candidate’s preferred college, in fact I don’t think we even have access to that information.

I think it seems complicated now, because in the 90s we were blissfully ignorant.

Now you can find out so much in advance, it can seem like a burden - but on the other hand you have much more idea of what you are letting yourself in for.

I applied to Oxford in the 90s - I chose the college purely based on its name, I’d never visited. I handed in my (handwritten)UCAS form, and my teacher said “oh yes, you need to send two essays alongside an Oxford application. And by the way, Josh is applying to that college, you’d better change yours so you aren’t competing with one another. So I went to my locker, dug out a couple of random recent pieces of work and handed them over. And crossed changed the college by flicking the prospectus open and choosing the one on that page. Oxford offered me an interview.

The first I knew of admissions tests was when I arrived for interview in Oxford and there were two of them on my timetable (I expect they were on the interview letter too, which I skim-read). I think nowadays admissions tests are used to filter before offering an interview, so it’s true that many more people will take them.
I did well in the admissions tests too, and got an offer - bizarrely from my original choice of college, which I had crossed out.

That worked well for me, I have always been a bit last-minute. But other people like having all the information available. Others still might find it overwhelming and anxiety-inducing to contemplate all that information.
So engage with the information at the level that you need to.
If you are happier to go with the flow, do that. If you need to know every tiny detail- what will the entrance exams be like, what percentage of people get an offer, where is the accommodation and how many people share a shower room, how many shelves will I get in the kitchen, what is the exact content of all the second year modules - the information is there, in more detail than anyone could possibly need.

You can still pick 5 at random and see what happens though, and I’m sure people still do.

Thank you - that's very reassuring!

I went to university towards the end of the 80s and we did open days and interviews, we didn't take our parents with us though. I had one interview in a hotel bedroom in London for a northern university, can't imagine that happening now! (And it was just an interview, nothing dodgy happened!)

Op I understand what you mean! DH and I also went in the 90s - I don’t even remember doing a personal statement? I did have 2 interviews though, at the only 2 unis I went to visit. It does seem more complex now but I think that’s more the availability of information, whereas we were just making it up as we went along!
My dd is yr 12 and just decided to go for Oxbridge so last minute panic a bit as there’s definitely more involved- however in reality at this stage it’s just getting the personal statement done early really - I have tried to calm her down by saying interviews / tests may not even come from it so cross that bridge as and when etc. However she has definitely missed the boat on some of their courses / competitions etc as she hadn’t really looked into it til recently when her school suggested she should. I am hoping that doesn’t really matter and a strong state school candidate shouldn’t be overlooked because they haven’t done a million extra curriculars but maybe I am wishful thinking?!

There were definitely open days in late 80s. Very few interviews, I think Cambridge and York were the only ones I did. Other universities just offered.

DS2 is about to accept place for computing with maths at RG uni. Courses are massively oversubscribed - over 700 for 150 places, many of those allocated to priority kids. From 5 applications he had 3 rejections - he had a lot more than grades needed according to prospectuses/online, found out from speaking someone who works at 1 of the unis they actually needed 5As at H + 2 Bs at AdH (Scotland) instead of the 3A2Bs suggested - even at this they are not guaranteed offers. As hard to get into as medicine apparently.
Didn't have any interviews & many unis don't even look at the personal statements so that was worth the time!

I understand what you mean! DH and I also went in the 90s - I don’t even remember doing a personal statement?
I was applying in 1996. Definitely had a PS.

I applied in 1979 - definitely a personal statement!

These threads on MN make uni admissions seem far more complicated than they actually are. Oxbridge applications are not complicated either; the websites are very clear about what needs to be done, which is not very much at all (assuming excellent grades and talent and enthusiasm for the subject in question). If your DS is in the zone for applying to Oxbridge then he should aim high with his other choices, imo/ ime. Open days aren't necessary and often give a false impression of a place anyhow. Visiting independently during university term time can be a much better idea, but these trips all cost time and money. I'm very glad my DC didn't get swallowed up by the idea that it was complicated. That was helped by their school not allowing more than three visits to open days across their time in sixth form and being relatively no nonsense about the whole process.

"The courses are very competitive but I am not sure they are selecting on ability when they have all these extra requirements - it's back door class selection really."

This is maths/CS so not verbal reasoning which would be a different issue. Ds sat TMUA for Cambridge for CS, Cambridge funded it because he applied to them. No other RG uni that he got an offer for asked for his mark. As his application had to be for early entry, so mid October and the test is early November it was not on his UCAS application. All offers apart from Cambridge were in by mid November before his results were available.

What they are looking for is if you are sort of naturally gifted for maths, can you get yourself to the next step having never been taught it? His Cambridge interview was all maths questions and they want to see how your mind works, how you go about solving something you haven't been taught to solve. If a large number of applicants all have 4 A star predictions including CS, maths and further maths (including Ds) how do they choose?

Open days were definitely a thing in the early 90s as both Dh and I went on them. I also wrote a personal statement and definitely did attend an interview. The internet makes choosing unis a lot easier I feel.

All information on Oxbridge applications are online it isn't a secret only shared in fee paying schools. It is also here, on MN where we all discussed applying in that year, knowing about moocs/summer schools/masterclasses etc. LSE produce a personal statement guide with examples of what is good and what isn't. Ds2's PS is being used next year for his sixth form as an exemplar. Youtube is full of students showing their PS that helped gain them entry to Oxbridge or RG unis. There are loads of examples online too.

Everything is available at your fingertips. Your son has chosen competitive courses at the top unis. Of course competition is going to be fierce. Both my children also chose competitive courses too but it is April, you and your son have a lot of time to research. Start a spreadsheet.

Durham and Bristol definitely interviewed

Just make sure you do put a range of unis down as maths/it are so popular that I know plenty of boys with top grades who put down the same five unis (ox, Warwick, Bath, imperial ucl) and didn’t get offers. Include at least one less popular one