Finding Uni admissions a nightmare!

[FiveFoxes]

DH and I both went to University in the 90s. My memory was choose 6 universities by looking at the UCAS book, fill in UCAS form and wait for offers. Accept a firm and insurance offer. Get A Level results. Apply for accommodation and start.

DS wants to do either Maths or Computer Science. He is getting high grades in his tests and did excellently at GCSE and therefore is looking at Oxbridge, Russell Group and similar.

Wow. Things are HARD these days and so complicated!

First off Open days where you have to register for each talk you want to go to and places are very limited so you have to get in early.

Secondly is all the admission tests. There are so many! And you have to pay for them it looks like? And some courses need them and some don't? Some might need more and interviews?!

And personal statements where they want you to have done other tests in the subject and attended conferences, entered competitions etc (all of which require you to know about and have the ability (not academic ability) to enter.

Not to mention Oxbridge colleges and how you choose that and (something I just read on MN) you can't apply to same ones as others from your 6th form..

And then there's student finance and accommodation and probably other things I haven't thought of.

Honestly it's as far away from an inclusive application process as I could imagine. It has been made as complicated and difficult as possible - it puts off those who don't go to proactive schools or have proactive parents. I feel overwhelmed by it all and I went to uni myself and am proactive! I don't know how other people manage.

"strikingly flaccid"
Absolutely howling 😂😂😂

Open days have been a thing since the 80s, I went to them, and Oxbridge is way simpler now than then. Good idea to keep up with the process but your kid should have access to all the necessary info.

Assuming your son is L6th?

If so, he won’t do a personal statement as this year’s U6th are the last year to do them.

They‘ll have a series of questions to answer.

We found the whole process baffling, as RG didn’t exist when we went to university (between 1979 and 1989), and we had UCCA and PCAS forms to complete. No fees, no loans.

We now have one at uni and one in U6th and it does seem complicated nowadays 🙁

Husband has just complained I’ve made him older -he went to university in 1980 …bit touchy 😆

@Georgie8 the UCAS personal statement changes will not come into effect until the 2025-2026 admissions round (i.e. for those seeking to start uni in 2026).

@JessyCarr and @FiveFoxes

Apologies -my U6th said she was the last year to do them (and was a bit miffed), but must have misheard/misunderstood.

As she’s my last one I didn’t check!

But …personal statements aren’t that hard. The school/college give a lot of guidance and check them before they go out.

FWIW I think the entire process of choosing, and funding university study has become more complicated.
Loans aside there's a wide variety of courses with different module options, assessment methods, etc. A degree also doesn't guarantee being able to walk into a graduate job anymore, so students need to consider the quality of career support/exposure and work experience.

RG is just a marketing tool, a self-styled consortium of universities that are supposedly research intensive. Some have a strong brand name, even internationally and multiple Nobel Prize/other academic award winners like Oxbridge, Imperial, Edinburgh, LSE. Regardless of what course you choose the university name alone impresses people. The rest have many competitive courses but aren't prestigious enough for the name alone to be impressive.
Considering all that, the bit that OP's talking about - admissions - is the easiest! That's why people are baffled. Some things she says like competitions are downright untrue! I don't know where this is coming from.

And the real challenge... after university is getting that first job. OP is going to get a shock when she finds out that a First from a 'prestigious' university doesn't send you straight to the top of the pile. Graduate recruitment for prestigious jobs are complicated. With multiple rounds - online tests, video interviews, assessment centres and so on.

I've accused of both knowing too much and not enough.

I am not overly invested, but I do want to be able to assist and support my DS. My parents didn't help me and I feel I could have done with their help in hindsight.

This panic was brought on by reading the threads on MN this morning. I DO find the Uni thing quite overwhelming and I stand by my point that it is much more complicated than it should be, that it's not inclusive and that will put people off. I am not sure why that has made posters so angry and aggressive.

But on reflection, I think I am stressing about this as it's more positive to read up on and plan for than other things going on in my life. However I think my other stresses might be colouring my opinions.

Thank you to everyone who has said calming and reassuring things.

OP, people aren't being angry or aggressive. They are simply trying to understand what your exact issues are. You haven't taken anybody's advice on board. What exactly do you think the process should be, so that it's 'more inclusive'? Decided solely on A-Level grades? That was your implication.

We are all strangers on the internet, what we think is irrelevant but your anxiety might impact your son greatly. Your parents didn't help, so you are trying to compensate but you might actually prove to be obstructive.

What you can do is help him express himself coherently in the PS, guide him to make the best choice - for him! Both intellectually and emotionally. Be a sounding board. Make sure he is deciding based on what's right for him and not being led by others.

Matters of process etc are very clear and you don't need to manage this. In 2024 there is a lot available online, that probably wasn't back in your day.

@Kissatem RG is definitely a marketing tool and, wow, haven’t they done a great job!

As we were pre-RG we couldn’t understand why our children wouldn’t consider certain universities, which we really rated.

Also, you’re right, too many courses, too many options -frankly HE is a dog’s dinner.

@Georgie8 - personal statements are still a thing. I’m currently a L6th form tutor and will be working with these on my form in September. There was lots of publicity about getting rid of them but it hasn’t actually happened.

@Notellinganyone thank you

@JessyCarr told me that earlier

My U6th must have misunderstood -she told me, as she was miffed that next year’s students wouldn’t have to do one, and I can now tell her that her friends in L6th will still have to suffer 😉

@Kissatem Yes, I think they should be awarded on A Level grades.

The grades would need 'stretching' to be more like GCSEs so you could see more differences.

The disadvantaged could still have lower offers.

But no matter how far you stretch the grades, there will always be more capable pupils than places for competitive courses. Especially when you consider international students.

FiveFoxes can you say what you find 'not inclusive' about Oxbridge admissions?

"it's as far away from an inclusive application process as I could imagine".

"But it is off-putting when it appears you have to have secret knowledge to apply. "

Secret knowledge? I completely disagree. It would seem you are trying to make out that you need secret / insider knowledge to apply. This is absolute bullshit. The process, even for Oxbridge, is clear, defined and laid out for all to see, it's very transparent, if you are prepared to look it up.

OP, many unis do make contextualised offers (ie offers with lower grades) for disadvantaged students. This is very common indeed.

These days, there are no secrets. All info is available to anyone online.

If he's applying to Oxbridge, yes, there are extra steps and an earlier deadline. But this was always the case, I think?

Nowadays, you can go on the Oxford or Cambridge admissions statistics pages and it's all there. You will see that, for those who actually apply, offer rates are actually higher for state school pupils in many subjects.

There were always 30 odd colleges to choose from at O and at C. Oxford often shuffle applicants around pre-interview anyway. At Cambridge, just go for a college that looks like it has reasonably consistent rates. There's not much difference between any of them really. The stats are all there on the admissions pages and its very transparent.

CS is very competitive, so it's worth being realistic from the outset.

Good luck!

There's a huge amount of information on the Oxford website about Admissions. It's open and accessible to anyone who can do a simple google search.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford

for most courses it will be based on the grades and be really really really easy. eg 3 of mine went to Bristol (all 3 are now solicitors, 2 qualified earlier this year). Just about none of my 5 children went to an open day ever. None did a subject with a special entrance test whether they did a BSc or BA (none did law first, whereas I did). None of my 5 tried for Oxbridge as they did not think they would get in and having done a cost benefit analysis as it were it was just too much effort to put in to bother - their choice (I would have supported them had they chosen otherwise).

So their process was like mine in 1978/79 (I still have my UCCA form scanned from then) - pick 5 choices, say something about yourself which in most cases now and then the university probably does not even read or if they do pay very little attention to it, unless it is Oxbridge and then once you get offers pick your favourite and an easier one to get into as back up.

As most applicants even if brilliant don't get into Oxbridge is it really worth the effort my children would have said? Is it worth it? If your child knows their career path which almost certainly does not require Oxbridge is the time and effort of going somewhere particularly if there will be a lot of luck in how you do in the interview involved may be best to concentrate on other top 10 universities instead. I write that as someone whose siblings did go to Oxbridge (one was the first from our school ever to get in) and my children have cousins who went or are there now so it is not as if we do not know about the processes involved.

Also always bear in mind my mother's very wise word - Life isn't fair. Don't be worried that someone else got in here and you don't or they get a job and you don't or they can have children and you cannot - as we all know life is full of unfairnesses you just have to make the best of it.

But OP, the vast majority of pupils don’t have their A-levels when they apply, so are you suggesting that places should be offered on predicted grades? This is notoriously unreliable and would favour kids with generous schools.

In any case, you’ll still have more kids with top grades than places. Arguably it would actually be fairer to have more places using admissions tests rather than fewer, so decisions don’t come down to minor details in personal statements!

All of mine did it all themselves and all got exactly what they wanted

I think the biggest changes overall are that far more people are going to University and there are far more options open to them. When I applied to medical school in the early 80s there were fairly limited options and as I knew I didn't want to go to London or preferably the extreme ends of the country, picking my 5 preferences wasn't that difficult really. I certainly didn't spend hours pouring over the minutiae of how the course was delivered (they were mainly very similar anyway) and I didn't even think about accommodation etc until I'd been accepted. I didn't visit anywhere until I went for interviews. I don't know if there were open days. If there were I wasn't aware of them and my parents didn't have the money for me to have gone anyway. Looking back I was pretty clueless really! My children have been much more well informed than I was!
There are a load of bells and whilstles these days and I think that given that there is a lot more choice it's probably worth attending a few open days if you can. I didn't give a thought to whether I wanted a campus University or city centre one, or where I might live, I just wanted to study medicine and knew I couldn't afford to be too fussy. In reality I would have gone absolutely anywhere that would have me. So none of the peripheral stuff mattered a jot to me. But for my DC looking to study subjects that are widely taught but in different ways at a very varied range of institutions I think it was worth "shopping around" and particularly for my youngest who is doing A levels this year it was certainly a worthwhile exercise.
But you don't have to. For some subjects and institutions there will be extra tests but for most people it is a matter of filling in the applications correctly, waiting for offers and then make a decision. Lots don't visit until after they have received offers, especially if they live a long way away. And school should support with the application process. There is so much more choice for most subjects nowadays so Universities have to actively market themselves plus huge amounts of information readily available and you can feel swamped. But if you cut it down to the bare bones of what you actually have to do it is not that different to what was required when I was applying over 40 years ago.

Ucas website, Undergraduate application section
https://www.ucas.com/undergraduate

UCAS Key Dates re application (scroll down for 2025 entry
https://www.ucas.com/undergraduate/applying-university/ucas-undergraduate-when-apply

Take a deep breath and have a read through the UCAS site - it's really helpful. You can even access parts of the sections for Providers and for Advisers.

I agree that vast swathes if the population don’t know much about this stuff or hear about if for the first time at the end of yr12.

Parents on the HE and FE boards on MN know more than most of the population. Having been to uni oneself gives some knowledge, but probably 30 years out of date and things have changed. It can feel over-whelming to even those who have been to uni themselves.

And what about the parents of kids who did t go to uni themselves and have taken a more laissez fairer approach to education?

I agree that there are all kinds of soft and subtle barriers, especially to the more competitive courses in the more competitive institutions. Yes, info is available on online, but you have to know that you do t know stuff in order to look it up in the first place.

Lots if students in-the-know, or at schools or colleges that are more on the ball, will have been working on super-curriculars through yr12 so that they have stuff to write on their PS or have referred to in their reference. They will have entered essay competitions, olympiads, been to conferences or engaged in other wider activity. In some families, parents will have actively encouraged this stuff.

In other families, parents will have no idea this is all useful…and indeed what makes an application stand out for the very competitive courses at the top places, where actually almost all applicants have a string of Astar predicted A Levels and loads of 9s at GCSE. Yes, fair enough, not everyone is applying for these courses, but OP’s son is interested in some of the most competitive courses and top unis. The PS, reference and admissions tests will make a difference for the very top courses in these subjects.

Fortunately its April. OP has time to read-up and they can book open days, and very quickly she can be up-to-speed and know all about it. There’s still plenty of time to find some widening access courses at different unis or online courses and engage in wider reading etc. Understanding the admissions dates and entry exams for some courses won’t be too difficult. An evening online can give you lots of info.

But what about all the parents and students who still haven’t realised this is all looming pretty close now - who will only realise in June that predicted grades are being set and they are being asked to start drafting a personal statement? For most it will all be fine, as they will be applying for courses which aren’t nearly so competitive. But every year, some very bright students who could have been brilliant on those very competitive courses, won’t get past the first hurdles because they and their families didn’t know the system and weren’t able to out themselves in a strong position. Even with schools and colleges looking to give info and with unis reaching out, unless you’re an absolute self-starter who is elf-motivated to find everything out yourself, without parental support, the chances are you’ll attend less Open Days and know less about different courses and have confidence in your own abilities to navigate the whole process.

Quite simply, it’s not a level playing field. Contextual offers and widening access are looking to make it more level and do help. But it’s naive to say that the info is equally available to everyone.

WombatChocolate to the extent that the Oxford and Cambridge websites are available to everyone, the info is equally available to everyone. And the websites are far more realistic and down to earth than a lot of posts on MN, which over egg everything about the Oxbridge admissions process hugely. There are several plausible motives behind this huge over egging.

Parental encouragement in the early years of learning to read etc is obviously really important but by Y12 no able student should require their parent to seek out info on their behalf around extra reading, competitions, Olympiads etc. Oxford and Cambridge look at all the things which tend to be championed by the top schools in context. MN often makes these things sound mandatory but they really are not - in fact, not even for students at top schools.

MN advice can be a very double edged sword. My advice would be to use the websites and take MN with a biggish dose of salt.