Finding Uni admissions a nightmare!

[FiveFoxes]

DH and I both went to University in the 90s. My memory was choose 6 universities by looking at the UCAS book, fill in UCAS form and wait for offers. Accept a firm and insurance offer. Get A Level results. Apply for accommodation and start.

DS wants to do either Maths or Computer Science. He is getting high grades in his tests and did excellently at GCSE and therefore is looking at Oxbridge, Russell Group and similar.

Wow. Things are HARD these days and so complicated!

First off Open days where you have to register for each talk you want to go to and places are very limited so you have to get in early.

Secondly is all the admission tests. There are so many! And you have to pay for them it looks like? And some courses need them and some don't? Some might need more and interviews?!

And personal statements where they want you to have done other tests in the subject and attended conferences, entered competitions etc (all of which require you to know about and have the ability (not academic ability) to enter.

Not to mention Oxbridge colleges and how you choose that and (something I just read on MN) you can't apply to same ones as others from your 6th form..

And then there's student finance and accommodation and probably other things I haven't thought of.

Honestly it's as far away from an inclusive application process as I could imagine. It has been made as complicated and difficult as possible - it puts off those who don't go to proactive schools or have proactive parents. I feel overwhelmed by it all and I went to uni myself and am proactive! I don't know how other people manage.

Seriously don’t worry about Oxbridge colleges. Go round a few and pick one on gut feel. Or make an open offer if it’s all too stressful. It is a myth (perpetuated by schools) that you have to apply to a different one to your schoolmates - the admissions tutors literally do not care. Lots of people will be reallocated anyway so it’s not worth getting too attached to a college.

I have been involved in Oxford admissions. There are no secret rules and requirements- but what is really frustrating is that however often you say that, there will be plenty of people who won’t believe it.

A cynic might point out that it is of course in the private schools’ interests to claim there are secrets that only they know…

The Oxbridge application process can seem very daunting but once you start working through it, it's a simple step by step process that you need to follow.
DS applied from overseas so although his school did their very best to help him, it was well outside their area of expertise so it fell on him to research and get himself ready for application.
There is so much information available online now to help with guidance on personal statements and interview tips that hopefully DC from any school would be able to prepare a good application.
Past papers are also readily available for both the MAT and TMUA (Cambridge also asks for STEP when applying for Maths so take that into consideration when choosing).
DS was unable to visit prior to application so just made his college choice by going through a checklist of his priorities (guaranteed onsite accommodation & good sports fields!) and watched a few YouTube videos of each.

That's a very sensible point. If nothing else, it's a deep shock to a bright student that they get rejections while their peers are getting five out of five offers for different courses.

He could (for instance) have a shot at Cambridge, Warwick, Imperial, but then include Manchester or Lancaster -- still good, but more chance of an offer.

I have a spreadsheet! Do you know if there is data on number of entries per place for previous years and the grades they offered on (as opposed to the grades the websites say)?

It turns out that DS does know about the application tests from 6th form. He just hasn't shared it with me.

I will totally take on board including less good good unis on UCAS form.

I am glad I don't need to stress about which Oxbridge colleges and also which ones other people are going too.

I have a bit of a fear of not knowing things and letting my children down, so tend to get stressed about things. DS is not like this thankfully!

But it is off-putting when it appears you have to have secret knowledge to apply. There must be a lot of kids and parents who take a look at, for instance, Oxford admission tests and colleges and think 'I don't understand this!' and get put off.

My son is at Cambridge (engineering) and my daughter is finishing her first year at a RG uni. DH and I were not involved in either application - other than to take them to open days and guide them when they had questions. They are both fiercely independent and driven, and after they did their own research, decided (with their sixth form tutors) and some discussion with us - what they wanted to do. I had no idea about stats and numbers of applicants for their courses - DS did all of the hard work on that for his Cambridge application, and DD just picked the unis that had the best employment stats and student satisfaction ratings for her courses....

Personally, I think you can make it as complicated or as easy as you need....!

Do you know if there is data on number of entries per place for previous years and the grades they offered on (as opposed to the grades the websites say)?

I wouldn't bother looking at this as the sector is experiencing some real challenges which means numbers and entry requirements could look very different this year.
And in reality how does it help you or your child?

But it is off-putting when it appears you have to have secret knowledge to apply.

Universities have an obligation to be transparent about their admissions processes. The information is out there and available.

It feels no easier with a child doing art - portfolio presentation, no, hang on a minute it needs to be digital, but this one wants a physical copy, can't bring a large piece of art so that DOES need to be digital (or schlep it across some random and unknown city centre at 7am hoping it doesn't rain and turn it to mush, taking 3 of us to carry it). Have you already done this course? Or that one? In addition to your A levels. And did you do the project just to apply - say what? How many hours work? And the theme is what? But that's different from the extra work required by X institution. And the interview requires what? Every single interview? Oh, that one's different ...

Trying to see the wood for the trees here. (Sorry to derail, but I feel your pain). DH and I are graduates too.

Just to reassure you on Law for your other DS... my DD is in the first year of a law degree at a RG Uni and the only extra complication is if he wants to apply to a uni where they want them to do the LNAT. Other than that it was just: go to open days, do the personal statement etc etc

I didn't go to uni in this country so the application process was totally new (and totally bizarre in only being allowed to apply to five universities all for the same or very similar subject).
Added to that my DD applied to Cambridge.
It does require organisation if there are extra exams/essays/portfolios to register for and submit. Hopefully the applicant will be on top of this with the aid of the school, but often not. The issue we found was all the supra curricular stuff required for Cambridge, interview practice etc.
I chose my uni for it's reputation, the location was secondary and didn't visit any until I was called for an interview. There were no open days that I can recall. My parents were fairly hands off and didn't come with me when I did go for my interviews. I wish I had been more informed about my options.
What's more annoying now is the wait for responses. Six months for one (Bath), when she holds three A stars for a not particularly popular course requiring ABB with an 86% offer rate...she'll have missed the offer day and it's making her increasingly less enamoured.

It’s about 10 applicants per place for maths at Oxford, and I believe computing is even more competitive.

Oh yes- nightmare isn't it!!
It's like a big game, but no one really knows the rules.
Find it all stressful and the whole process is slightly switching off DD from a love of studying.
And- it's the opposite of open and inclusive. Even open days cost a fortune.

My dc have just graduated/still at university and I don't know what you are talking about, it's barely changed. Yes you preregister for open days but that takes seconds online. 99% of courses it's just like in the 90's, you apply for accommodation in May but you did at Birmingham in the 90's too!

For a few courses (medicine, law mostly) there's an exam but 6th forms can advise on that. For Oxford or Cambs you can only pick either or (was same in 90's) and you choose a college and there's an exam - I took (and failed) entrance tests in the 90's so again no significant change.

In fact the main thing is it's all online now. Your dc's school are used to all of this, as parents the best thing you can do is encourage them to read the course contents online then visit a shortlist based on predicted grades plus back up just in case. Very competitive courses those so be prepared to need excellent grades

CS is ridiculously over competitive so they need more A stars than for other subjects to get in along with Maths which is nearly as competitive

The top London Universities are very competitive atm

Oxbridge is Oxbridge where you have to do an interview regardless of how academically brilliant you are and some stuffed up twat decides on your future based on if they like you or not. It's pathetic

I found it a bit overwhelming tbh but I've not had any uni experience, and we're not doing Oxbridge.

My DD is applying for a creative subject and one of them had over 800 applicants for 120 places.

And of course they're competing against international students and the handfuls of cash they bring to the university

These international DC don't even do our DC A Levels

It's a fucking joke

The interview is one part of the assessment and is considered alongside the test results, written work, personal statement, teacher reference, GCSE and predicted grades. The purpose of the interview is to help work out (as far as one can) who is in fact the most academically brilliant out of people who all seem to excel on paper (or have strong contextual reasons why they may not have yet shown their full potential).

How would you suggest Oxbridge decides between the 10 brilliant candidates for each place? Lottery? There’s an argument for it and it would save the academics a hell of a lot of time)

The international student offer is a huge change from what I remember. There were very few international students when I was at Uni. Now the mini prospectuses all have a lot of information for international students and specific English requirements depending on the course.

I believe the Unis say they are extra spaces and that they help fund home students.

Of course, because everyone is equally academic brilliant. Each stage is holistic. There is a points based system awarded on your GCSE's, your entrance exam, your interview. It's a tough process, but fair. My DD had average GCSE's, but aced the HAT, so got an interview. She then admits to doing really badly in her interview. The tutors were lovely, she just didn't perform well. Fair enough.

How would you suggest Oxbridge decides between the 10 brilliant candidates for each place? Lottery? There’s an argument for it and it would save the academics a hell of a lot of time)

I wish they would rejig the A Level grading like they did with GCSEs to make it 1-9 or add an extra A star star grade instead.

I am assuming (hoping!) a lot more students get A & A star grades than did in my day (when A* didn't exist).

But nearly all candidates apply with predicted grades, not actual, and there’s quite a lot of evidence that some schools are more generous with predictions than others. So this would just risk perpetuating inequality - rather as we saw with teacher marked grades during Covid where private school pupils were marked much higher by their teachers than state school pupils.

I think the big difference these days is if parents’ combined income is over about £60k then you have to pay a significant amount towards living costs: food, accommodation etc. We are budgeting £15,000 a year for 2 DC at uni at the same time.

So if you are strapped for cash and DC are on courses where they can’t work part time, then it becomes quite important where they go. Oxbridge is usually the cheapest, London the most expensive. It varies hugely.

International students are not taking places from your DC so don't worry.
They also have to have equivalent qualifications - so while most won't have done A Levels they will have qualifications that are equivalent to the A level requirements as well as a minimum IELTS score.

Not to mention the fact that a significant number of international students are studying at postgrad level.

That's exactly the same as before! Plenty of kids at uni in the 80's and before relied on parents 100%. At least everyone can get the minimum loan these days.