Finance or Engineering at Uni - Help my son choose

[blueshoes]

Ds is in Y12 and doing Maths, Physics and Economics A level. He thinks he can get AAB (solid chance) or AAA* (aspirational, cough) if he finally knuckles down.

He finds Economics naturally easy. His fave subjects at GCSE are Physics and Maths but he is finding it hard work at A level and not getting the grades.

He is starting to think about his course and uni and veers between Finance and Engineering but does not know where to start. Not Oxbridge, he is not that material so probably more Russell Group. He definitely wants the university experience and not an apprenticeship.

Neither dh nor I are Science-y nor Finance-y, so not much use.

Any thoughts at all about Finance or Engineering as a career in terms of future prospects? Which uni or course is the best for either? Any other thing he could be doing that is all the rage?

I'm a chartered accountant and ex investment banker. I'd echo what PPs have said, don't do a finance degree as they're not particularly well regarded.

I'd stick with economics (although it's one of the most competitive courses to get onto) or any other academic degree such as engineering, geography, English, history, whatever, it doesn't really matter.

It's quite a niche degree and only offered at 3 universities but have a look at the MORSE courses (Maths, Operational research, Statistics and Economics). Warwick offer it with very high grade requirements but Lancaster and Southampton offer more achievable grades.

Interesting, thanks for the tip

Thanks, great tip.

I am not writing ds off re: maths even though he is only achieving Bs at the moment. He just needs to practice practice practice and work at presenting his answers and workings better.

I asked him and he said there is no maths topic that he has been taught that he felt he could not 'get it' if explained to him. So it is not hard to him. I feel he is not rigorous enough in doing the questions.

It breaks my heart because you can get 100% or close to it if you practice enough (allowing the odd hard question or careless mistake). So many competitive courses ask for A* in maths. I feel it is eminently doable. I feel Ds can do it. Once he starts getting the grades, his confidence will come back.

Thanks, this is good advice

So nice to read this. Looks like maths is important for lots of things. Have told ds not to give up on engineering.

We are scared of London schools you listed, lol, but only because ds may not get the grades for them. If only they will have him 😂

My DS initially couldn't decide between Economics and Accounting/Finance when starting to think about university.

Liked, and was good at, both Maths and Economics A'Levels - it was after he'd been to a few open days and attended the subject talks, that he opted for A&F.

He said the Economics courses seemed far too theoretical/essay heavy, as opposed to A&F which seemed to have a wider ranging syllabus.

In his first year at Exeter and enjoying the course, which still has a good amount of Economics modules in it.

I did computer engineering but ended up in investment banking/finance. 'Finance' these days is a lot about tech so my engineering background has been very useful to stand out. Happy to discuss more by PM!

@Dearg @blue345 @Theresit @Caravaggiouch @Talkinpeace @PandaG @ItsReallyOnlyMe

Getting the message loud and clear to avoid doing a Finance degree over an Economics degree and also Engineering keeps all doors open.

Ds is going to use his Lower Sixth tests after the Easter break as a litmus test of how bad or good he really is at Maths and Physics.

When the time comes for him to apply for his UCAS choices, does he have to narrow down to Engineering OR Economics OR Maths with ... His personal statement is going to be all over the place!

Eldest has an honours degree in Accounting and now in a graduate job which pays for all his chartered accounting exams to enable him to be a fully qualified chartered accountant.

youngest is studying environmental and civil engineering.

both loved maths and physics at school gaining national qualifications and highers(we are in Scotland your teen needs to read more into the courses he is thinking about to see what course would suit him better and to find out what unis he is thinking about too.

You definitely need an aptitude for and enjoyment of maths and physics to really take to engineering. Otherwise it's very uphill.

Normally you would apply for same subject at all universities of very similar though something like Maths and Economics could be combined but not Economics and Engineering.

Appreciate the insight on your ds' A/F course. What you said about Economics courses being too theoretical/essay heavy has resonance with me. It is what made an A/F course more attractive.

I am also reading on this thread that Economics has a high maths content (I presume the BSc). Maybe the Economics BA is more theoretical/essay.

These two degrees seem interesting options.
https://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/2024/innovation/msci-economics-with-innovation/#entry-requirements
https://warwick.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/beng-engineering-business-management/

Maths content of Economics degrees will vary by course, and also you can often choose options. LSE is very mathematical, most require at least Maths A level and prefer FM. Joint courses with economics have less maths in.

What are the different Engineering specialities he can do? Does he have to choose now or just do an Engineering degree and decide later.

There are quite a lot - chemical engineering requires chemistry so not that, the others will vary between the different fields and which uni it's at quite how difficult the physics and maths content will be. Electrical/electronic, mechanical, aero and civil are the main ones. But there's also robotics, 'info' engineering (not quite sure what it is but I believe it involves very hard maths) ...probably others

Quite a lot nowadays have a common first year so they dont have to decide upfront. General engineering courses are another option but they may not all provide the right balance of 'generalise then specialise' appropriate to going on to be an engineer.

Many will include courses (mandatory and/or optional) on basic accounting, economics and management.

He should have a look at this for sure (it's the successor to the Headstart scheme which did 'taster' courses in engineering etc)

www.etrust.org.uk/insight-into-university

@blueshoes

To clarify, when I list London based universities and say don’t be frightened to apply, it’s because normally there is a fear about the cost. Yes it’s more expensive but you have the city on your doorstep and lots of internship opportunities which pay quite well.

Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. We live in London so the cost is not a big issue, but the grades are 😂

Economics is extremely highly regarded, some find it a tiny bit dry. Ds1 is doing PwC Flying Start Accountancy, and he says the Economics students workload is even higher than his.

I would say most Finance/Accounting/Banking grad schemes would happily take someone with an Engineering degree but most Engineering based careers would need an Engineering degree and a financey subject would close these options off to you.

But ultimately, he should do what he enjoys the most as it will he hard work with lots of independent study.

Congrats to your Ds1 at getting into PwC Flying Start Accountancy. That must have been very competitive.

Husband’s a mechanical engineer, he achieved similar grades to those your son is predicted. Husbands believe being an amazing engineer is more likely to hold you back in a career as a mechanical engineer as those roles are lower paid. My husband realised early on that he wasn’t going to be the greatest engineer so he focused on management training instead. By his early 30s he was earning significant sums as a senior leader.

The type of uni for mechanical engineer isn’t important re Russel Group vis post 92. The most important aspect is that the course is accredited by the institution of mechanical engineers

I work in Finance and I’d definitely recommend engineering. He can still get a Finance role with an engineering degree if he fancies later on, but not vice versa.

Interesting perspective. I don't believe ds will be a great engineer (if he decides to do the degree) but he needs the degree as a stepping stone into a great career.

He told me he likes schmoozing (lol, I actively dislike it) which is good for a professional services firm because ultimately at the senior levels, you are valued for the work you bring in, not the ability to do it - there are very capable juniors for that.

I imagine in an engineering firm the next step in the career are for those who are able and prepared to move into management, like your dh. It gives me hope for my ds. He is more an all rounder but not brilliant in anything in particular.

Try Googling BA Economics. Manchester one for example is mixed with social
sciences:
https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2024/05134/baecon-economics/course-details/#course-profile