Finance or Engineering at Uni - Help my son choose

[blueshoes]

Ds is in Y12 and doing Maths, Physics and Economics A level. He thinks he can get AAB (solid chance) or AAA* (aspirational, cough) if he finally knuckles down.

He finds Economics naturally easy. His fave subjects at GCSE are Physics and Maths but he is finding it hard work at A level and not getting the grades.

He is starting to think about his course and uni and veers between Finance and Engineering but does not know where to start. Not Oxbridge, he is not that material so probably more Russell Group. He definitely wants the university experience and not an apprenticeship.

Neither dh nor I are Science-y nor Finance-y, so not much use.

Any thoughts at all about Finance or Engineering as a career in terms of future prospects? Which uni or course is the best for either? Any other thing he could be doing that is all the rage?

Hi, I’m joining this thread because I have a DS in the exact same position! He adores Economics, he always loved physics but he is finding it tough at the moment. He still love physics but he is getting 100% in Economics and cannot scrape a B in physics. Part of that is the teaching - DS loves problem solving and applying maths to real world issues. The Economics teacher manages to engage the class and him in particular, but the physics teacher not so much.

He is also naturally good at maths. However, I wonder if an economics degree, which he would excel in , would be as beneficial to him as an economics degree - he wants to work in business.

@ArghhWhatNext I saw that course and ds separately saw it too. It would be a dream for him if he could get in but I suspect he won't come within sniffing distance of Imperial for such a course.

Keeping that on my (haha) aspirational list.

That is good to know that engineering is flexible.

Ds does not strike me as an on site person. He is doing a weeklong internship at Mott MacDonald in the summer so that will help to focus his thoughts.

Welcome @Iloveshihtzus . Glad to have a fellow traveller on this thread.

Oh, interesting. What are the different paths?

Ds says he likes the essay and macro side but does not fancy himself a central banker. Which courses / jobs would he be looking at with essay /macro versus the data / maths path?

Its easy to go into finance with an engineering degree but not the other way round so in terms of keeping options open the engineering is better.
my friends son did chemical engineering but after graduating applied for a finance role and is now a CA.

I would do an engineering degree as it would give him the option to work in either sector as Math is a major part of engineering the banks etc recruit engineering grads.

Lots of options in engineering, electrical, mechanical, civil etc.

I read economics at university. Understand both economics and engineering are maths based. Economics for me was 75% maths, mainly stats and regression analysis. Don’t do finance. Save that for an MBA.

I would recommend looking at engineering, computer science and math based economics, sometimes called applied economics or mathematical economics.

I regret not looking more heavily into engineering. My father was a mechanical engineer who transitioned to electrical engineering and materials research. There are so many avenues open to you with this type of education. An engineer will always be able to do a finance role but a finance person can’t do and engineering role. Also the engineer grads are always fun to work with because I’ve found they are much more innovative.

A sandwich year is something that I think is a positive. Graduating with experience is a huge plus. Also, don’t be frightened by London schools such as LSE, imperial, UCL and kings. All excellent universities which are very strong in both economics and engineering.

So great that your son found the right fit. Loughborough is a fantastic uni.

My DH and DS1 both did engineering at University.

You need to really love and ‘get’ physics and maths to enjoy studying engineering. If he isnt a natural at it, he is likely to find engineering hard. Of course there are exceptions, but DS says he used physics and maths for pretty much every exam question (he did general engineering)

That is my fear and you have confirmed it. The grade requirements for Economics are definitely higher than for Finance.

Which area of finance do you recruit in, if you can say? It looks like a very competitive area.

Some Unis do a "Financial Mathematics" degree, which is basically all the "financially" kinds of Maths, i.e. probability, statistics, etc., with accounting, business and economics modules. So, basically the accounting, business and economics modules swapped in, instead of the engineering/scientific Maths modules. It's a really good degree for any kind of financial career, i.e. accountancy, actuarial, investment banking, economics, etc etc and not quite so targeted as say an actuarial science degree which can pigeon-hole the student.

Or of course, if he can't decide, he could do a "Maths with....." degree such as Maths with Physics, or Maths with Economics, etc. or even "Natural Science" which can be a combo of numerous modules from different disciplines.

Hi OP, I used to work in finance, graduated from LSE :)
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself with your son's current performance in quantitative subjects. The jump between GCSE's and A-Levels are hard. Between A-Levels and university, even more so. It doesn't look like he'll be able to cope with engineering, but maybe he will improve.

Any quantitative STEM subject generally has an advantage for jobs, as they're seen to be more rigorous. Investment banking firms love hiring STEM grads for front office jobs like trading. However, the jobs are generally open to any degree. A postgraduate maths qualification is preferred for the jobs that actually require heavy mathematics, like quants.

Regarding 'finance vs economics' well there's no easy answer. You need to look closely at the degree content. Economics degrees can have finance modules, and vice versa. Something like 'quantitative finance' can consist mainly of maths/stats module, and their applications. It can be even more rigorous than a generic 'applied mathematics' degree. Look at whether further maths is specified in the entrance requirements.

Of course the obvious job choices are working in financial services firms, government bodies, big4 accounting firms, economic consultancies but there are so many other options. Even in financial services he could work in , say compliance and risk management, which takes any degree. Technology is also a big graduate scheme area across several companies, engineering will make him first choice for technical roles but so will a quantitative finance degree.

My degree was 'accounting and finance' but there was a lot of module choice. I did a good balance of quantitative and qualitative including graduate level mathematics modules and programming. I started in corporate finance but didn't like it so became a software developer instead.

Good point. He attended the EY Apprenticeship talk. They get an ACA at 22 after being paid to study (and work). Incredible.

Unfortunately, my ds has no interest in Apprenticeships. I think he just wants to party.

Look at BA Econ rather than BSc. Also you can combine with other minor subjects at some unis.

@Penguinsa thanks, very practical advice. Will definitely dive into the detail of the various courses.

If he is attracted by Data Science then maybe he should explore this area. I know there is a lot of demand for data scientists in a wide range of areas.

If he wants to party and isn't really sure what he wants to study woukd he be better off working for a few years to earn the money to play with, then perhaps do a degree when he's got more idea of what degree would open the doors he wants to go through?

That said, Engineering is pretty much applied maths, it is hard. DS studied engineering and is now working for an engineering firm and working towards chartered engineer status. A number of his peers from his course are now working in finance in the city, the engineering degree opens lots of doors. DH is a chartered accountant and tax advisor - he did a maths degree and most of his colleagues did not study finance for a degree, but something else.

I was going to suggest Bsc. joint Maths with Economics, but I see you say he prefers macro & theory ( essay) rather than analytical side.

I agree with pp that looking at BA Econ is a good idea. A Finance / accounting course will probably limit the range of minor subjects he can study.

Its tough having to make decisions at a young age, unless you feel a strong calling, so keeping the field quite broad is a good plan.

Appreciate the reality check. Ds is realising he is a small fish in a big pond of far more driven and smarter students.

Ds needs to work on applying himself more and not taking shortcuts nor fobbing his parents and teachers off. He should work on himself firstly, saying that as his mother.

It is good to know there are choices out there and you can change careers. Seems like quite leap between corporate finance and software development!

I’m an actuary.

Maths - brilliant. Physics - great. Financial maths / actuarial science - great. Economics - great. Finance - hmmm.

Engineering opens more doors than finance
(I say that as an accountant)

AAB is absolutely fine for studying Engineering! Jeeze I got a lot less than that and have a successful engineering career.

IME pure 'finance' is rare at top universities. Even LSE, while its had 'accounting and finance' for a while only started offering pure Finance a few years ago. And the amount of theoretical content really varies.

I re-applied to a different grad scheme - that one allowed for people less than 3 years out of university IIRC. Also for entry level roles, it's more fluid. Harder if you're more experienced.

@LivingDeadGirlUK I don't think the grades are the issue here it's the motivation. Also OP's son like the 'essay and macro' side.