Reapplying?

[AllTheFunOfTheHair]

DD is waiting to hear from her final choice for STEM subject following 4 rejections (including after interview from Imperial and Oxford)

She always knew it was a competitive subject, but with strong academics (10X9 at GCSE and predicted 4 Astar at A-level) plus good PS etc it wasn’t wildly unrealistic.

Her school send vvv few to Oxbridge and weren’t really able to help much with interview prep - she openly says she messed her (online) interview up. For imperial, we had a family bereavement in the morning and she was coming down with what turned out to be Covid so it wasn’t great.

The final choice was her least favourite and she’s really not sure she wants to go there even if offered.

We’re trying now to get our heads round what applying with grades in hand looks like and would hugely appreciate any experience or insight from anyone who knows more about this than we do!

• is it a waste of a “space” trying again for Oxbridge and Imperial? Does the bar go up even higher second time around?
• what will admissions be looking for in terms of “extra” to show that the applicant isn’t just reheating their previous personal statement? (We know the format is changing for 2024). Should DD be trying to do another project/get work experience/start a new course over the summer hols once A-Levels are finished, beating in mind how early the Oxbridge deadline is?
• Any other help?! My DD has really low self confidence and this has knocked her so hard. We know it’s really down to the competition out there and a hefty dose of (bad) luck but it’s tough to see her hopes and dreams so badly crushed.

Thanks

@LighthouseCat You are welcome.

Hi OP, while I understand that you are trying to support your DD in a reapplication, you really need to step back and see the bigger picture now.

I have a friend who is a STEM professor at a major University and who has a masters from Oxford. He was on the interview panel for Oxford. He recommends that students go to Oxbridge as postgrads not undergrads. They still get an Oxford degree, but they are more mature and can cope with the culture better. He thinks this is especially important if you do not come from a private school background- he did not.

Another friend’s DD studied STEM at a different Uni and is now a post-grad research intern at Cambridge with the world’s leading professor in her chosen field!!! She got this by being the biggest fish in a smaller pond, and she thus managing to get great internships throughout her undergraduate degree.

If your DD is still intent on trying again, it would be worth your while getting someone who knows the Oxbridge system involved - if she applies to a more modern college or a less central college, there is less competition. There are people out there who know these rules - that is how their children get in to Oxbridge!!

Good luck.

Not for Oxbridge she can't. Applications Nedd to be in mid October. The same personal statement will apply for all applications.

It is perfectly OK to use the exact same personal statement for reapplication too unless there is something of relevance to the course which has happened since the earlier application a year earlier.

Be careful which type of STEM course it is. Maths based courses tend not to like gap years unless she can continue her maths in some way during the gap year.

Applying with grades in hand especially if she does achieve 4 x A* is always a bonus over those who just have predictions especially if her school doesn't have many Oxbridge calibre students or they are known for over predicting.

As long as she goes into it mentally prepared that it may mean rejections again.

Which are the other two rejections?

As regard Extra I suspect it may not benof use to her if the idea is to look at competitive unis as they generally won't have places available.

@Spirallingdownwards
she can put her Oxbridge application in in October with her PS. And wait.
She can then put her other four applications in in January, with four different PS directly to the individual universities if she chooses different courses. My dd did this, her courses were poles apart, as she couldn’t choose! She rang each individual uni, said she’d changed her mind, could she now apply. They said email in a PS. Offered within 48 hrs!!

Yes with entirely different courses but does she want that? I knkw Durham will take a PS for other courses but not anywhere else that actively states this. Which were the 4 that did dor your DC?

@Spirallingdownwards
The point is, the OPs dd does have thinking time, even if she does want to try again for Oxbridge.
She can get to mid Jan and completely change her mind and still be ok.

the unis which accepted emailed PS from my dd we’re, Bristol, York, Cardiff and Birmingham. My dd phoned the admissions tutors for the courses she decided to apply for, explaining that she had changed her mind and that her ucas PS didn’t match up. They said, no worries it happens all the time, write a covering email with an alternative ps.
Three out of the four offered with in 48 hrs

LighthouseCat Maths at Bath has a high offer rate, says 90% here.

https://www.admissionreport.com/university-of-bath/bsc-mathematics I think its mainly the Computer Science / Economics / Medicine you get this issue though can also be some niche courses as well. One thing to be aware of though with Maths is Cambridge make offers to 50% more than they take as they have STEP in the offers. Oxford was entrance test first so once you have an offer its rare not to get in, 97% for Economics.

With Economics the people who get no offers with 4 A stars or 3 A stars I would guess have gone for the top 5 or 6 universities only - Oxford is 5%, LSE is 5% with no FM or 9% with FM, Imperial I think has a specialist course Economics, Finance and Data Science which says 35:1 but if you say include places like Bath with I think is ranked 7th its offer rate is over 80% as is Bristol's and both excellent places to study. Its definitely worth looking up offer rates to ensure you have choices which are likely to offer as the top courses with the 5% or so success rate will have maybe 10 times that number with all A stars.

@Penguinsa thank you! That's interesting and reassuring. DD would be delighted to get an offer from Bath. And Bristol is on the list too. Her absolute first choice is Warwick which I think is highly competitive for maths.

Yes Warwick is very, very competitive for Maths @LighthouseCat . There are the COWI institutions and then there is everywhere else in the UK.

@LighthouseCat For Maths, Warwick follows a similar strategy to Cambridge. For a competitive course, they have a relatively high offer rate but they make it hard to achieve the conditions of the offer so a lot of people holding an offer don't make it.

@LighthouseCat My neighbour’s DC did maths at Exeter and was very happy. My DD did another subject back in the day at Bristol and enjoyed it very much. A friends DS did maths at Warwick and it’s definitely competitive to get in. I’m not entirely sure how much he enjoyed it. It was definitely a course with many aiming for top jobs in London and he’s very laid back. So not sure he found his tribe and now teaches. You will see the top unis ask for more tests but I would think about if DD wants that pressure. Many maths grads get great jobs who don’t go to COWI. Two we know who went to Cambridge and Warwick aren’t thrusting young things in London! Just wasn’t what they wanted. So career interests and personality drive what dc end up doing. The main thing is to enjoy the degree and where you live and form an idea of what career you want.

Just popping back in to say that UCAS Extra is now open and that there's a good range of universities still accepting applications for Maths and Computer Science - Durham (via NatSci), Glasgow, Manchester, Lancaster, Loughborough, Leeds, York...

Obviously offers aren't guaranteed, but plenty for your daughter to consider OP

@TizerorFizz @Phphion @poetryandwine thanks all. Lots of food for thought. Everyone I come across who has gone to Bristol seems to love it so we'll definitely go to an open day. I know someone who has recently finished their maths degree at Warwick. They said they didn't regret going but they probably would have had more fun almost anywhere else 🤷‍♀️ I think my DD is coming round to the idea of needing to look into a wider range of uni and really think about what would best suit her and her ambitions (she is autistic and it's only relatively recently that she's decided she could probably manage going). Anyway, thank you all again. And apologies to OP for slightly hijacking your thread. I so hope things work out for your DD. She is clearly brilliant.

I'm a tutor involved in admissions at Oxford, though not in a STEM subject. There is no higher bar second time round. Her qualifications, any test results and interview performance will be assessed on their merits in the same way. The tutors won't even see that it is a reapplication, though they will see she is a year out from school. She now has the advantage of actual A-levels, not just predicted results. So I don't think it is a wasted application at all, and if she got an interview last time she is highly likely to get one this time. but obviously if it is a very competitive subject then it is still going to be high risk (just like it was first time round).

if she applies to a more modern college or a less central college, there is less competition.

Less competition for that College, yes. But these days there are reallocation processes in place at various stages to ensure that your choice of College does not affect your chance of being offered a place somewhere in Oxford. I can't speak for Cambridge. So don't apply "strategically", there is no point these days. Not true a generation ago.

Thanks again everyone. Digesting all the very helpful experiences and insight.

Bath and Durham were the other two rejections but in a twist I think I saw coming from the moment she put Southampton down, they’ve offered. Excellent for her confidence not to get a full sweep of rejections, but obviously now a lot to think about.

Next steps continue to be to just focus on getting the A-Level grades while really deciding if Southampton (excellent course and uni though it is) will over the term of a degree really be the right place for DD given how very close it is to home and how much she wanted to spread her wings. It isn’t that she’s absolutely fixated on Oxbridge or Imperial at all costs, just that she feels she’s investing the time and money involved in a degree in the wisest way possible.

Great news, especially for her confidence. Accept it for now. She can always change her mind in August!!

@AllTheFunOfTheHair She did have a high risk strategy! Bath and Durham, Imperial snd Oxford were all very competitive. I’m not sure why she didn’t use the 5th choice to spread her wings if that was important. Can she not embrace Southampton? I would definitely accept but where would she look next time?

Thanks @TizerorFizz - yes, a high risk strategy but on the other hand it could have paid off so I can understand why she set her sights very high.

We did at the time say that applying somewhere with those downsides (for her) was maybe not ideal…

Four rejections have brought home to her more than any parental lectures ever could that while she’s been in a bit of a pool of one to date through her schooling, that there really is some fierce competition out there. If she does end up going through UCAS again next year (or maybe Extra/Clearing) I think this, and being a bit older, will stand her in good stead.

Good luck @LighthouseCat , sounds like some fairly similar conversations might be happening in your house!

Southampton is excellent, OP. Congratulations to your DD for that.

Congratulations on the Southampton offer.

Good news about the Southampton offer! This has been such a useful thread. It's enabled me to have a good discussion with DD and I think she does realise her strategy is/was high risk. All the very best to your DD @AllTheFunOfTheHair x

Just bear in mind she is unlikely to get anywhere 'better' than Southampton in Clearing/Extra. Top tier unis rarely go to clearing in competitive subjects. How close are you to Southampton? My DS is there (not doing Maths) and loves it and also loves that he can come home on the train at weekends for 20 quid to go to friends birthday parties watch a football match etc unlike his friends that went North, we are in Surrey so it's couple hours drive or hour or so on the train. The course my son is on did not go to clearing last year and it's less competitive than STEM/Maths.