DS, yr10, interested in medicine or vetinary

[SnowFairy2000]

Where do we start? Is staying focussed on grades enough for now? He's aiming for Biology Maths Chemistry A levels so will have lots of other options available including biomed, biochem, sports science etc.

Any thoughts welcome, ( he's on waitlist for st John ambulance) many thanks 😊

@TizerorFizz yes, but 'going up the pay grades' is no longer a certainty. In fact many are stuck on F2 pay for years. Because there are not enough training places. Some may even be unemployed in August this year. 6.600 were turned away from GP training last year.
No extra pay for bank holidays (including Xmas), only for nights after 9pm. Doctors take home less than they did 10 years ago. That's in real terms.

That applies to huge numbers of people though. It’s still the best return for money spent over a lifetime of working. It’s not immediate pay back. I agree. They are employed. That is a fact. They are not earning miles below similar people. Glad they are getting doctors to train as GPs though. I thought they said no one wanted to do it! Hopefully appointments will appear.

@TizerorFizz think you missed the point. Doctors want to be GPs but no funding to train them. So doctors are stuck doing F4,5,6 etc, not progressing or specialising. It's so depressing.
5 years of hard study, loads of debt, money spent on endless post grad exams, all for less than making coffee. And Australia is offering £85,000 for a 35 hour week. What would you choose ?
Want a doctor - support the BMA. Otherwise in 5 years we'll have none.

And they are not all employed. GPs being made redundant, and this year F2s may well
end up unemployed in July,
Doctors have to move every 4-6 months. They are treated like crap, I am so glad they are fighting back,

Unless you work in a branch of medicine that lends itself to private practice, you will not be as financially successful as many in business. I speak from a family of medics. If you want to earn a lot of money, don't go into medicine. But yes, they do generally earn more than vets as they progress. Having said that with the. Current shortage of vets who knows.
If you want to work overseas & specialise there are ways of making more money in both professions.

@Cantonet but doctors no longer have guaranteed progression, that's gone. Training places cut. Ratios of 1:14 in some specialties. Locum work gone due to the use of PAs.

Look at Vet Mentor and Medic Mentor. They’re very helpful , and year 10 is not too young to start exploring options …

https://medicmentor.co.uk/veterinary-virtual-live-work-experience/

https://medicmentor.co.uk/

Good advice. Please make sure they know what they are getting in to. The NHS is a mess. Let's hope it's fixed before your DD enters it. 🤞

Those are ideal A levels, so that’s a great place to start. If he wants to do vet med, he needs hands on work experience & plenty of it. Farms, kennels, rehoming charities, riding stables as well as veterinary surgeries are all good places. Some experience of large animals is important. Vet students need to know how to handle pigs, horses & cattle calmly & safely, for obvious reasons.

The profession has become increasingly corporate in recent years, and is only going to become more so. His first job is very likely to be with a corporate, particularly in the small animal sector, so he will need to deal with financial targets, budgets, KPIs, processes etc etc.

Lots of young people want to be vets, and have an idealised view of the profession. Cute puppies, cuddly kittens, challenging surgery, fascinating exotics etc etc. Well, there is some of that, but there is also a heck of a lot of blood, shit & death, too. Young vets need to be robust enough to deal with this.
Source : A close family member is a very experienced small animal vet.

Thanks so much for all your advice and thoughts, you are all so awesome 👌 lots for us to consider here , willp post any additional questions that come up.

A vet with 25 years experience and supporting people applying. Year 10 is not too young to know in fact most people who are vets never ever wanted to be anything else. Whilst not every vet school needs work experience now I think it is necessary to be sure it is what you want. Vet med is a lot of poo, wee, sick, blood and death plus our patients bite, scratch and kick so resilience is very necessary,
Burn out and compassion fatigue are huge issues due to lack of resilience. This is a particular issue for those of us who worked through Covid and are now dealing with all the Covid puppies who have behavioural problems are not insured and their owners have no money. Abuse of veterinary staff has never been more common.
I love the good days of my job, I love my team, but the shit times are shitter than any other time in the last 25 years. I have a team member who served in Afghanistan and she says our hard days are harder than the worst days there.

@Lonecatwithkitten it's so sad that people think vets can be abused. DD has lectures and OSCEs on how to deal with grumpy, rude clients, but I know it will never prepare her for the reality.

You are right. She has never wanted to be anything but a vet, since she could talk. Started doing work experience in year 10, and did some every holiday until UCAS application went in (did need a lot more pre covid). None of it put her off. Not being nearly trampled by a cow coming out of a stall (v nice farmer grabbed her and lifted her clear), or being covered in pus when a rather large abscess exploded (she stank when got home).

Whereas my other DD only really decided on medicine in year 10. Don't think she believed she was clever enough before then.

Veterinary does seem to require a passion to do. It's a v v hard degree (as is medicine before my 2 read this and we have the 'conversation' again about whose is harder 😂😂). At interviews you need to be able to talk about what you've learned from any experience you've had, so the more the better.

Whatever she decides, keep a diary of what she sees as it's so useful when filling in the forms. Good luck. Both mine are v happy with their career choices, although one is striking a bit more than she expected !

It’s good to see a thread on here about vet med as it seems to have gone a bit quiet recently. I have a 4th year vet student DD who wanted to be a vet since she was about 8. As others have said it is so important to get the hands on experience with animals which can be used as part of the application process. @mumsneedwine has a unique perspective with a dd in both camps, I can imagine the discussions about which degree is hardest have been interesting! I knew that the veterinary degree would be difficult but have been shocked at the lack of holidays DD gets. The EMS requirement is huge and involves paying for travel and accommodation whilst undertaking placements, which will not be easy for many. We regularly get sent lovely photos of practical sessions (yesterday’s was her first amputation) so be prepared for that!

@Scottandcharlene heellooo 🥰🥰. Hope all going good with you all.

The amount of EMS is bonkers. DD seems to get 4 weeks free a year, including exam study time.

But then so did medic DD in clinical years. Only difference was that her placements were organised by the Uni. Not sure how you do vet med without a car !

https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine
https://www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/making-an-application

https://www.vetschoolscouncil.ac.uk/applications/
http://www.vetschoolscouncil.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Admissions-processes-and-entry-requirements-for-UK-veterinary-schools-2023-applications.pdf

Hello to you too 🥰. All good here thanks, we are going to visit DD tomorrow with our dog (she misses the pets so much!) I can’t believe she is nearly at the end of 4th year, she starts 5th year in April! As you say she has about 4 weeks off throughout the whole year but that does include revision. Her boyfriend is the year above her and has just been offered a job (1st interview), which is exciting. Hope your DD’s are both doing well x

@Scottandcharlene 😊 we went to see DD last weekend - as she was missing the dogs 😂. Eldest drove up so was a lovely time catching up on all the gossip (& weird things they've been up to). Starts 5th year in April too (must be a thing). 4 weeks until exams so in the library, before the Ball tonight. Probably their last one.
DD been offered a job already from one of her EMS placements last year ! Probably won't go for it as not quite what she wants, but was amazed to be asked. Vets telling her they just can't recruit. So hopefully lots of nice jobs for ours next year 🤞🤞

They need to pin down exactly what the job entails hours on call, Vet GDP ( post graduation development phase) support, plus is there an ongoing training program. So much to consider with vet jobs now.
VetGDP support is a big thing as it can hold up the rest of your career.

@Lonecatwithkitten thank you. Might be coming to you for some advice for her next year 😊.

Uni do seem good on giving advice on what to look for and they've had lots of lectures on training contracts. DD loves the referral hospitals she's worked in (despite the bad pay) and is working towards that. Or equine, can't yet decide. Anything but farm (she says she's stuck her hand up enough cows now). Exams and 5th year to get through first 🤞

I think there is a lot to be said for a year as a GPvet to get your VetGDP done before heading into referral which is a very narrow world.

As a GP vet I tend to refer to those who have an appreciation of what my day is like and that I might not have carried out that slightly less usually test because I had tenty billion other cases swirling around my head too.

@Lonecatwithkitten think that's her plan. Couple of years in GP, then go and travel and work abroad for a bit. Then try and get into referral stuff. She's in no rush to settle down ! They are the Covid cohort who started Uni in lockdown. Lots of plans were scuppered and delayed.

My DD is also interested in specialising. She's spoken to a couple of people in charge of Vet recruitment in Australia & Canada. That's definitely worth doing in advance. Canada's vets don't tend to do general practice first.
As well as seeing which countries have the best reputation & ratings by talking to your university. She was shocked to find Australia is not highly rated, with very few options for the specialty she's interested in. As this would have been her first option. Also Ems overseas is also incredibly helpful in making decisions about future places you might want to work in. DD did the Thai spaying charity which was a very worthwhile useful experience & a stint in Vancouver Island.

@Cantonet DD doing Thailand this year 😊. Has already done EMS in S Africa which was amazing. So many rhinos and elephant dartings.

She's looking at Canada too.

Brilliant.
It's such a fantastic place. She made lots of friends. Plus DD says they were very well taught. Her stitching is excellent & meant she could operate from the beginning in practice.
Just avoid the infamous bar that sells jugs of Cocktails. They're absolutely lethal 😆

@Cantonet 😂 I will warn her (& she'll probably make a bee line straight to it). She's going with a lovely male friend and they hope to travel a bit too.
She made so many international friends in S Africa (one of whose dads owns an equine practice in Canada !). Networking at its best.