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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

DS, yr10, interested in medicine or vetinary

58 replies

SnowFairy2000 · 07/02/2024 18:02

Where do we start? Is staying focussed on grades enough for now? He's aiming for Biology Maths Chemistry A levels so will have lots of other options available including biomed, biochem, sports science etc.

Any thoughts welcome, ( he's on waitlist for st John ambulance) many thanks 😊

OP posts:
Biscofffan · 07/02/2024 18:54

Early days for your DS but Vet science really needs hands on experience working with animals eg in stables, on a farm as well as observation in a vet's practice. Something to think about for 6th form/college. It's even more competitive than medicine.

mumsneedwine · 07/02/2024 21:49

😊 @SnowFairy2000look at a few Uni websites for vet med (Liverpool and RVC v clear what they need). Attached a screenshot of Liverpool.

Medicine, as I said, you'll need some kind of caring experience, even if it's just working with younger kids.

Again websites v clear about what you need, although the selection process is a bit complicated (some use UCAT alone, some a combination and a few score GCSEs).

Firstly they need to work out which one they want to pursue.

DS, yr10, interested in medicine or vetinary
TizerorFizz · 08/02/2024 10:58

@SnowFairy2000 I thought I had responded to you! Worrying if I have put info on the wrong thread!

Firstly, whatever you have heard about doctors pay, vets earn less. So you must love animals to do it. Many vet schools will want lots of varied animal experience. The minimum will not be good enough. That’s why the dc of farmers and vets have a head start. Their lives are around animals. I would have thought he would know by now if he’s interested in animals or human beings! What interest is he showing in animals? Or people?

Both these degrees are very very competitive. He needs to be absolutely certain now about which one and plan work experience (or volunteering) and tick the boxes and some more. He will need to contact farmers, vets, stables, have his own pets etc. Now.

Look at all the interviews for medicine - often multiple round robin ones. Is he up for that? What are they looking for and what interests him about human medicine? The question you pose seems detached from caring and real work. It feels it’s just about a job with his subjects. I think he needs more than that to do either job and hopefully he’s not just thinking about prestige.

DriftingDora · 08/02/2024 11:06

SnowFairy2000 · 07/02/2024 18:02

Where do we start? Is staying focussed on grades enough for now? He's aiming for Biology Maths Chemistry A levels so will have lots of other options available including biomed, biochem, sports science etc.

Any thoughts welcome, ( he's on waitlist for st John ambulance) many thanks 😊

When I worked in Higher Education, veterinary medicine required very high grades and was extremely competitive to get into. Of course things may have changed over the past few years, but something to bear in mind when your son's planning his research into vet. med. as a career.

Previous poster's advice about getting some experience would also be good (don't think St John's Ambulance will hack it, either! 😁)

Edited from 'daughter' to 'son'! Apologies!

follygirl · 08/02/2024 12:44

My dd is a 1st year vet student at Liverpool.
She was always clear that she wanted to do Vet Med and not Medicine. They are extremely different roles.
You have to do Biology and Chemistry A levels, the 3rd can be anything although I believe Cambridge want Maths.
You need to do a variety of work experience. Not just because it's a requirement but also because your son needs to have a good view of whether he wants to do it. It's not all about cuddling puppies. I remember when my daughter was 14 and a 17 was helping at lambing. The girl thought the whole thing was disgusting and was terrified of the cows st the farm.
I would say as a minimum: lambing and then preferably dairy cows. Definitely stables and then kennels/catteries. Of course clinical experience although that can be an issue as rightly practices favour actual vet students.
Despite ticking all of these boxes and getting AAA, my daughter only got 1 offer. It is pretty standard that the application takes 2 years.
She is now a vet student and spends pretty much every weekend in the library. As well as studying very hard she has to do 38 weeks of EMS (extra mural studies) to actually qualify. That basically means that she's spending 2 weeks out of her 3 weeks of holiday at Easter doing lambing and another 4 weeks this summer. All unpaid of course.
She absolutely loves the course but it's hard work.

TizerorFizz · 08/02/2024 14:44

@DriftingDora Any casual observer of Vet and med applications tells you they are highly competitive.

St Johns Ambulance is great. Certainly does hack it. However extra is always good and going into a care home is also worth it. As is working in a public facing role. A cafe would be fine.

DriftingDora · 08/02/2024 14:50

TizerorFizz · 08/02/2024 14:44

@DriftingDora Any casual observer of Vet and med applications tells you they are highly competitive.

St Johns Ambulance is great. Certainly does hack it. However extra is always good and going into a care home is also worth it. As is working in a public facing role. A cafe would be fine.

Extra isn't just good, it's absolutely essential, as anyone who has dealt with applications for vet. med. will know. The OP's son needs some experience with animals, not just people and St John's on it's own definitely will not hack it.

TizerorFizz · 08/02/2024 14:54

No one has said St JA on its own. It’s a great start though and he’s got time to plan other activities. Who said he didn’t need expletive with animals for vet science? Not me. See my earlier post. Glad you are not reading my PS!!

mitogoshi · 08/02/2024 15:14

Get work experience with animals, volunteer at rspca, hedgehog sanctuary, pdsa etc.

BiancaBlank · 08/02/2024 15:46

Unless you have family connections, he may find he’s a bit young for many work experience places right now - RSPCA for example wouldn’t take my DD until she was 18. But it’s not too early to plan. DD didn’t decide on Vet Med till the end of Yr 12, which gave her only three months to get work experience before the application had to be in, which wasn’t really enough!

If he decides on Vet, I would recommend looking at the Vet Schools Council website, which has a useful booklet on all the nine or so unis that offer Vet Med and what they want (typically three As and varying amounts of work experience).

DriftingDora · 08/02/2024 16:58

TizerorFizz · 08/02/2024 14:54

No one has said St JA on its own. It’s a great start though and he’s got time to plan other activities. Who said he didn’t need expletive with animals for vet science? Not me. See my earlier post. Glad you are not reading my PS!!

Could you explain what 'expletive' the OP's son requires for vet science? Was your PS worth reading?

TizerorFizz · 08/02/2024 17:50

Obviously auto correct. It’s mn!

TousBous · 08/02/2024 17:52

It’s definitely worth looking at work experience options in your local area now before the pressure is on with GCSEs and A-levels. He can put out feelers to find out what there is and what age he needs to be so he can get his application in asap when he is old enough. It’s great that he is already on the waitlist for St John Ambulance as by the time most students start looking for work experience in the sixth form, it is too late to get a place.

It’s also worth reading around the subjects. Not necessarily academic books, books which give him insights into the profession or popular science books that are relevant eg (off the top of my head) Oliver Sacks (Awakenings, An Anthropologist on Mars etc), Aarathi Prathad (The Bonesetter’s Waiting Room about medicine in India), David Nott (War Doctor), Ed Yong (I Contain Multitudes about our micro biome). Reading relevant journals and news stories is also useful.

If you live near a university, they may have relevant public lectures. Lots have free online free short courses or lectures. DS did one on epidemiology from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.

Those are all useful and good things to do but I wouldn’t stress about it too much now! Medicine and Vet School are very competitive but MN posters do tend to over egg it when people ask for advice 😂 St George’s used to have the toughest work experience requirements and that was only 40 hours but that included things like scouts and guides, and they have dropped the requirement now since COVID made it impossible to get experience. It seems to be quite rare if you really want to do medicine and get the grades not to get in on the second attempt post A-level if you apply tactically and spend your gap year working as an HCA. I don’t know about vet school though…

follygirl · 08/02/2024 18:50

@TousBous

I agree that you have to apply tactically for Vet Med, but sadly I do know of applicants who didn't get offers the second time round.

I wasn't scaremongering but I really feel it's crucial to get a real understanding of what the job entails which is why I recommend doing as much work experience as possible. Stables are always happy to have free labour but yes getting clinical experience is harder due to insurance.

mumsneedwine · 08/02/2024 19:03

Read the Uni websites. They are very v clear what you need. You do not need cattle and lambing for vet med. You do not need hospital experience for medicine. I have spent 7 years supporting students gain entry to both. And have a doctor and a vet student as kids. Both v competitive subjects requiring AAB-AAA (unless contextual and then can be BBB), and many great students fail to get an offer every year. It's a hoop jumping process and getting the interview is what to aim for now.

Vet starting salary attached. Doctors start at £32,000 and there is no longer any guarantee of getting past F2 these days. So few training spots loads having to do endless F3,4,5.....However, both better paid and better treated abroad.

DS, yr10, interested in medicine or vetinary
mumsneedwine · 08/02/2024 19:04

Some v good MOOCS around, that Unis accept in lieu of experience. Notts and Edinburgh for vet. Brighton and Sussex for medics.

TousBous · 08/02/2024 19:49

I didn’t mean you, @follygirl! Your advice seems eminently sensible and based on recent experience. You do get a lot of posters on MN medicine and Oxbridge threads talking nonsense about needing straight A stars, all 9s at GCSE, grade 8 cello, a Nobel Prize or 2, and huge amounts of work experience, preferably performing open heart surgery in a war zone or similar 😂 Certainly for medicine, universities understand how difficult it is to get work experience and are realistic in their expectations eg you might not be able to get clinical experience but volunteering in a soup kitchen, care home or special school, even looking after an elderly or disabled neighbour or family member will help develop skills needed in medicine and give insight into the health needs of different groups and how health issues may impact their lives. That kind of experience topped up with online work experience programmes would be more than enough for med school. It’s not so much what you do or how much you do, they are looking for applicants who have identified the skills they need and developed them and what insights they have gained from their experience.

Haffdonga · 08/02/2024 20:58

He's only year 10! Way too early for a 15 year old to be sure about any career choice. Don't close doors on any other options at this age and let him enjoy the delights of being a teenager.

At this stage just focus on getting a decent crop of GCSEs next year, including maths, English and the sciences that will then keep open the option to do the requisite A levels (in particular Chemistry and biology) if that's still the route he wants to go. Plenty of time to get work experience in a year or two. For now let him concentrate on balancing his school work with other things he enjoys (sport, music, friends, whatever makes him happy) and turning into a decent person.
My 2 both chose medicine in the end but neither knew in Yr 10 what they wanted to do for sure, neither did work experience at that age but both had lots of fun along the way making their minds up!

Gymmum82 · 08/02/2024 21:11

Most vet students have had extensive experience before applying for university. Either weekends in stables or kennels, volunteering after school in a vet practice. Most for many years. It’s extremely competitive and grades alone are not enough. Though as he is male he will have that on his side for diversity.
I’d encourage some experience in an animal based role if for nothing else to make sure it is the career he wants

Myotherusernameisshy · 08/02/2024 21:24

mumsneedwine · 08/02/2024 19:03

Read the Uni websites. They are very v clear what you need. You do not need cattle and lambing for vet med. You do not need hospital experience for medicine. I have spent 7 years supporting students gain entry to both. And have a doctor and a vet student as kids. Both v competitive subjects requiring AAB-AAA (unless contextual and then can be BBB), and many great students fail to get an offer every year. It's a hoop jumping process and getting the interview is what to aim for now.

Vet starting salary attached. Doctors start at £32,000 and there is no longer any guarantee of getting past F2 these days. So few training spots loads having to do endless F3,4,5.....However, both better paid and better treated abroad.

To clarify, this is not a vet starting salary!
The lowest figure on here would be a very good starting salary at the moment.
I'm twenty years qualified and I earn less than the middle of this range. I am at the top of our salary scale for non-management vets.

Catinknickers · 08/02/2024 21:29

Mum of a fairly recent vet graduate here.

I would read the criteria for each vet school very carefully and check it’s still relevant nearer the time. Student room is good but some inaccuracies.

Unis like stuff like playing a team sport or a hobby so don’t dump all the fun stuff. There are a couple of new courses since she applied. She went for the place she felt most comfortable at but bear in mind that some courses don’t fit the criteria to work in the US for example. You need to do extra exams.

She got a first but you don’t need to be super clever. Empathy, teamwork and communication skills are far more important.

My DD had over 20 weeks experience but some of her colleagues had less than 6. We have distant relatives with cattle and she found lambing via student room. Also helped out on city farms, a local stables, and an animal home. We’re in London.

She shadowed our local vet one evening a week for a year and did several weeks during the holidays. He was an old school vet, now retired who comes from the same place as my DH so unusual!

I would encourage your DC to do work experience at 2 or more practices to see if they like it. She also fitted in paid work on Saturdays elsewhere.

DD is 2 years graduated and on her second job at an independent and is paid just over £40k which is apparently good but they are strong at work/life balance. She was on a graduate programme with one of the big chains which wasn’t all it was hyped up to be and very long hours, no breaks etc.

mumsneedwine · 08/02/2024 21:31

@Myotherusernameisshy I know it sounds nuts but vet students are being offered v silly salaries before they even leave Uni at the moment. Students I know bring offered between £35-42,000. Don't ask me why, I can only comment on what's happening.
DD seen that in Aus she can get £85,000 so fancies that for a few years.
Think her doctor sister will be heading that way soon too. We are looking at retirement visas just in case.

mumsneedwine · 08/02/2024 21:33

Not sure you become a vet or doctor for money though. But the debts of £100,000 are daunting so earning some decent money abroad is appealing.

Cantonet · 09/02/2024 16:16

DD graduated last year.
The highest salary offered by any practice was £35 000.
She was offered a job by the first practice she interviewed with & absolutely loves it. She works in a 24 hour practice, so receives out of hours payments as well on top.
There's a vet shortage so salaries are currently going up.
The basic junior doctor salary is @£29 000.
DD didn't have to work all hours.She had a very healthy social life, especially in the first year where there's a lot of Get Socials on. But she's very good at working constantly & studying for exams. In fact that's one of the requirements - being good at passing exams. However to be a good vet in actuality you have to be an all-rounder. A smooth personality, good communication skills with non-scientific people are vital. Some very academic people are now having issues once graduated & are finding vet life very tricky.

TizerorFizz · 09/02/2024 19:32

The pay scales for junior doctors is attached. There is extra available over the basic pay. Plus pay goes up quite steeply. At the top end doctors earn more than most employed vets. Not necessarily more the than business owners of course.

DS, yr10, interested in medicine or vetinary