Conservatoire applications

[Violasrule]

Is anyone else looking to apply for a 2025 Conservatoire place? We have just started the process and it’s a steep learning curve!

We’re aware that for some of the more prestigious colleges it’s useful to have an idea of which tutor you would like before you attend the audition. Has anyone else come across this?

My DC has not yet decided between university and conservatoire. TBH without sounding harsh, I'm not sure if she's good enough - she's on a popular instrument with not many spaces, and no real second study or doubling instrument to back it up. Still, she'll give it a whirl.

I'm not sure how one can be expected to favour a particular tutor? Even if you know them by reputation that won't necessarily tell you if their teaching style is a good fit? And surely most 18 year olds couldn't be expected to have personal experience of many top level tutors?

It's common to book consultation lessons. And sometimes an applicant has an idea due to links between their previous school/JD. Eg anyone at Chets might have an idea of some of the teachers of their instrument an RNCM.

with travel and fees that could get expensive very quickly - and that's before fees for application, auditions and more travel. No wonder only around half of RAM students are state educated...

sorry, that sounded a bit chippy towards you @Comefromaway, I'm sure it is the right thing to do. But I think it's ill-considered of these institutions to ask students and parents to pay £££ upfront without even knowing that they'll be accepted.

Went through this a few years ago although eventually DD didn’t take up any of her conservatoire offers and opted for a non music degree instead.

when she was considering it she did have consultation lessons with tutors at her preferred conservatoire to get a feel of chemistry. She said it went well and was useful although she didn’t choose music in the end.

Thank you @StrangewaysHereWeCome , @Comefromaway and @Maggiethecat , that all accords with my thinking.

It’s an expensive and uncertain process.

DD is currently at a JD. They agree that Conservatoire will suit DD but think she should stay where she is and so we can’t get sensible advice about alternative tutors.

Don’t apologise. I agree with you. It’s just when I’m at work my posts can be very short and to the point.

I have a bit of involvement with under privileged staye educated young people and assisting them with things like music lessons and applying to conservatoires.
Dont even get me started on audition fees.

My DC is at RCM at the moment. They went from a specialist school. Before the auditions they had 3 consultation lessons (2 online so saved the travel costs). Their teachers recommended departments and DC had very firm negative views on one conservatoire and wouldn't apply there...

I agree it is unfair as having had a consultation lesson beforehand means that you are more familiar with the professor (assuming they are on the audition panel) and in DCs case they made sure they played one of their pieces differently depending on who was listening to it as two professors had had very different ideas....

I think that you should press their teacher on professors at other institutions as its not really fair not to get that feedback.Also your DC could consider whether there are teachers they have come across at masterclasses that they liked the sound of etc and see where they are. Its also a good thing to research who is doing what - in DCs case they had the consultation with their head of department to get an overview but then chose a different professor for their main teacher as they liked their repertoire interests better.

@londonmummy1966 - would you feel comfortable sharing which conservatoire your DC had the firm negative views about? I'm obviously aware that this may well be department/instrument/tutor specific, so wouldn't let that put us off completely, but it's good to know if there are areas to look at in more detail at open days etc

@StrangewaysHereWeCome - it was more the vibes than anything else - they just came out saying they had felt really uncomfortable there and were not going to apply and nothing anyone said would shake them from it. I think its a bit like house buying - sometimes a property looks perfect on paper but just doesn't feel right. All you DC can do is go to open days asking themselves if they can visualise their being there. Mine actually ended up with a head over heart decision as they loved Birmingham but knew that RCM would offer better opportunities.

It’s really a tough call. Music tuition requires a certain level of intimacy and connection between teacher and student and sometimes it just doesn’t work.

Dd ‘chose’ one of her early music teachers when we were trying to decide between two. She said that she had a very warm feeling in her tummy when she had a lesson with this teacher. And she turned out to be just the right teacher for her.

Even an online consultation may be useful to get a feel of the teacher.

My DS has just been through the process, so I can tell you his experience.
He didn't have any consultation lessons before auditions, mostly because of the logistical difficulties of getting him to London/ other parts of the country, but also because of financial considerations and not knowing what his preferred Conservatoire might be and where he might get offers.
He did approach one teacher, but she advised that it was better to wait until offers had been made.

In the event, he has been offered scholarships to all the conservatories he applied to, and has been offered free trial lessons as part of the offer holders day at one of those conservatoires, and also from the teacher he had previously approached.
Other teachers he's since contacted have informed him they don't have space in their class for next year, so a lesson before auditions would have been a waste of time/money.

And if they’re really lucky their Chets tutor may also teach at RNCM.

So mine is second year conservatoire. He had a few trial lessons but they were on offer holder days so no extra cost. He was already fairly sure where he wanted to go and who he wanted to teach him and trying a couple of others reinforced that.

My advice would be to visit as many as you can. Speak to current students if you can - many conservatoires will try to put you in touch with someone. Think about practical matters - accommodation (this was important for us due to large instrument), distance from home, any other considerations. If you can get consultation lessons over the coming months, they can be helpful - but I suppose you may not end up with the same tutor in a larger department.

Thank you all for your replies.

@londonmummy1966 and @Maggiethecat how did you go about arranging the consultation lessons. Was it through course administrators or by contacting the tutors directly?

@Violasrule - she discussed with her teacher who might be a good fit and contacted them directly.

@Violasrule Dc's teachers recommended the professors and arranged it for them.

The whole thing is ££££. As others have said: auditions and then offer holder days. We didn't even do open days. And couldn't have got our shit together in time to even consider consultation lessons. I'm not sure how genuinely useful it would be in selecting a teacher as there are surely many factors at play. Could be useful for audition tips or if in doubt about whether student is the right level t9 apply perhaps.

The offer holder day free sessions were fun, but I wonder who is sizing who up? I told my son not to count his chickens about which teacher he'll be allocated.

@Kammer1 , I really don’t share your view.

Yes, it’s expensive and a hassle having to travel up and down the country, but it’s important. IMO the immense cost of taking a 4 year music degree justifies the investment in finding the right tutor and the right institution. Also there’s protecting the investment we have made already in JD and various youth orchestras and the risk of not finding work if your DC doesn’t have the right skills/contacts on graduating.

Having started the reading in on application to conservatoires this is the first mention I have seen regarding consultations!

My dd is at a state secondary, in the North, we have no links to conservatoires or first-hand knowledge of them, and the music provision in school is scant with A Level only being offered there for the first time this year. She is expected to get an A in Music A Level (having just missed a 9 at GCSE), she plays at grade 7/8 level now but is perhaps a grade behind in practical exams due to the covid break. She has played in local ensembles for the past 8 years and plays with a County ensemble too. I know that all of that experience will help, but I now worry whether we're on a hiding to nothing by applying at all.

I am taking from the comments above that a consultation/advice lesson would be a sensible option for her? We can manage the fee if it's going to help us determine whether she is at the correct standard - is this something they'd share?

As with the 11+ grammar school tests, this is not a fair or accessible career path! By the time I applied for conservatoire (many years ago) I knew all the teachers of my instrument in all the conservatoires, and more to the point they knew me. I had had lessons with most of them and I knew where I wanted to be. If my DC apply I will make sure the same is true for them. Classical music is sadly extremely inaccessible and elitist. It pays badly even for those who get jobs in top orchestras and many of my colleagues only get by in life because of family money, being married to someone who earns a lot more etc.

Anyway, I think it’s still true that they won’t care much about anything on paper and will go entirely on what they hear in the audition process. For the top conservatoires this usually means grade 8 distinction by early teens and then working with a top level teacher at a JD. Second study instrument is irrelevant although keyboard skills are always useful.

@AlwaysaLittleBitTired - please don't be put off by those with more money and more opportunities. Otherwise the world will never change. A course at a Conservatoire is still a degree even if not all graduates become professional performers. There are other employment routes. Enjoyment of the subject is pretty important IMO and so if your DD is committed, that's to be valued.

Maybe you could have a consultation lesson at your nearest Conservatoire? Just to see what they say about standard.

Get in touch with them all and speak to their 'widening participation' person. They jolly well should be encouraging applications from the state sector so don't be put off.

Some are undoubtedly "easier" to get into and it will depend on the instrument.

Feel free to DM me. My son has gone through a non-standard route (state school then no school and only 1 A level) and he got 5 offers including scholarship offers. The only consultation lessons he had were after offers were made.

In general I found Admissions teams really helpful.

BTW, I'm a music graduate who was by no means good enough to play professionally. I went to a state school, had pretty ordinary teachers, played in County ensembles. I've had the most wonderful working life in various arts admin jobs, have done a bit of teaching and lots of high quality amateur music. Music is my whole life and every day I thank my lucky stars that I had the chance to study it, as its brought me so much joy. I wouldn't have been as motivated if I'd studied something else.

My DC is at a conservatoire, state educated and no connections to the conservatoire they attend. They didn't attend a specialist music school, or junior conservatoire. They had one lesson per week in their chosen instrument. They are lucky to be naturally musical and have picked up other instruments with relative ease.

I didn't realise that people had consultations etc.

My DC does feel they are surrounded by very wealthy young people, who do not need to worry about making money post conservatoire. My DC will have to earn a living and is concerned that realistically he can't make a living from being a professional musician.

It's very frustrating, as the chances of Joe Bloggs making it are so low.