Degree at 16

[3StepsForward]

Does anyone have experience of their DC starting a degree course at 16.

If so, what were the things you wished you considered before they did? Any tips or advice? Do you feel they missed out on peer interactions? Did the university put anything specific in place.

DC would live at home rather than in halls/student accommodation. They won't have A levels, but will have some qualifications in the subject that are at a higher level and are likely to be ahead of a lot of the other students in certain areas.

Degree subject is one that needs a very particular skill set rather than needing a more rounded maturity level (if that makes sense). University are happy that they can access the course - and keen to have them (already doing things with the department).

We are looking at alternative options that would keep them with peer cohort, but it will mean repeating work they were already doing at a high level at 13/14 and is likely to be a problem for any sixth form unless they can differentiate massively and basically provide a bespoke course.

DC is also ND and has very firm ideas on what they do, are extremely persistent and stubborn and so studying something else from 16-18 is not going to fly. They are not overly interested in the social side of university life (but that could change 😱)

Just trying to spot all potential pitfalls in advance.

I didn't find any issues in being a graduate by 20. I got a job worked for a few years and went on to do an MA.

I am a little surprised that your dc doesn't have to work with others in music as my ds is very music oriented and would like to do a degree in this in some way and it seems to be a very collaborative area. I'm guessing this is about the type of music that you want to work in.

I do think previous poster's comment about a backup plan are useful. My ds is thinking about music teaching and keeping an eye on what he needs to do that. Not closing too many doors too soon seems sensible.

It's hard to say exactly without being potentially outing. It's a very niche area in which I would say around half of people work alone and half collaboratively. Group work is definitely not mandatory for the course - obviously there are group classes etc for lectures but the work can be entirely individual.

DC is already working professionally - and wants to carry on doing that but full time. Is very aware of how hard it is and no rose tinted glasses.

Plans B and C are all there if needed. Feet are firmly on the floor thank goodness.

It would be very, very unusual for a music degree at either a university or a conservatoire, not to contain some group work.

There is one module on the course that requires it, but not until final year, the rest you can mainly do on your own if you prefer (obviously working with department staff etc, but not group projects).

But you are absolutely right, which is why it is proving hard to find options.

The fact that your DC is already working professionally says they are doing something right, OP. Still, I hope that you and the other adults in their life can persuade them that learning to get along well with others is likely to be a useful career skill.

I do know a number of people who went to uni early and were ND.

For most of them they were sufficiently talented at what they did that even if they missed out on some of the social side and took a slight hit to marks from the group project they did very well at uni and have continued to do well ever since.

At least one of them is in a company that basically employs someone to communicate with him (maths genius).

It is very hard to find a degree without group work these days but this is solvable by your DS basically treating it as am individual projects and doing all the work.

Thank you! And totally agree - and we are all united on that front. Poor DC!

Hopefully if it's not forced and they meet lots of others at a similar level but with different things they are bringing to the table then it will become something they embrace - at least some of the time!

And being with people who are much better than they are will be helpful - they might get a bit of a shock if someone doesn't want to work with them!

That is very reassuring to hear.

I do worry about being told they are uninterested in student social life (I have spelt all the things DH and I enjoyed at university that they won't be able to do) but I'm not them and maybe it's really not for them.

I'm making a big list of things to discuss with the university and with colleges so I know exactly what the expectations will be. I hadn't put as much emphasis on collaboration and group work as I probably need to in my list of concerns.

How amazing that a company did that for their maths genius! Love that. The world is definitely more embracing of ND quirks these days.

Google George Harliono - he started a music degree at 16 I believe.

Again, my DD is currently at uni and is ND herself and knows a lot of ND people.

Her university has a neurodiversity society. In addition, a lot of the ND people she knows have joined societies for the things they are interested in - jazz, astrophysics, Ghibli, etc. Umi is actually much easier in many ways for ND people as you can just start a society on (for example) medieval plainsong and meet up with the other people also interested in it,

Left field suggestion here … it sounds as though your DS would be starting the course only because he has to stay in full time education for two more years and you can’t find any other options. Have you considered home education? Perfectly legal and there is no requirement to cover any specific curriculum or take exams. You would need to be able to demonstrate that DS is receiving an education, but this could be largely self-facilitated and tailored completely to his needs. Just a thought.

@PumpkinKnitter the requirement to stay in full time education, or start an apprenticeship or traineeship until 18 is a requirement set by the government on local authorities to facilitate this, not on individuals. In reality it's a paper tiger as there are literally no repercussions for not doing so and it is completely unenforced.

I have thought very seriously about this - and there are options that would involve various masterclasses, short courses, own study and working. DC is very open to this.

On the downside, I'm not sure I am up to managing them at home for 2 years (I work FT) and given the ND issues I would prefer them to be around other people and developing social skills (not ideal where we live), and potentially being encouraged into working more with other people.

As @puncheur says, in practice you can actually get away with not being in full-time education from 16-18 very easily, so it's more about what is best in terms of DC's progression both in their subject and in terms of having a normalish social life.

If we do go for the degree option, they would turn 18 in the second year, so there is the option then that they could have more of a normal university experience in Y3 having been very supported in the previous years through living at home etc.

Yes, it’s a hard call, with pros and cons both ways. Good luck with whatever you and DS decide.

It's not a big deal if you don't think about uni as "the experience", which seems to be mostly the case in England.

My dd started at just 17 and is going to finish just before she is 20.

She is v mature for her age and extremely academic so got through school quickly and moved onto uni accordingly.

Luckily where we live most people stay living at home and go to a local uni so it was actually not a particularly big deal. Just fortunate for dd that she could move through the school system quicker and move onto self directed learning and a more mature lifestyle.

She couldn't go to certain drinking venues but worked her social life around that. The worst thing was she couldn't do French club, which she wanted to in first year, as they met in the uni pub and she wasn't allowed in!

The thing with music is that doing a degree is a way to get very high standard (if you go to a conservatoire or similar) instrumental tuition for free.

Many musicians (and dancers/actors etc) are not at all bothered about the qualification but it is how they can afford the training and living costs.

DD knew a few who started early. Two Hong Kong boys, aged 13 who came to London with one of their mothers to study at Imperial and who joined her sports club to mix with people their own age and ability.

Then a French girl who had been accelerated a year at the Lycee and who had an autumn birthday; the French system is based on the calendar year. They had always been in the same age group for sport so DD was surprised when she said she was going to UCL at a point when DD was only just starting sixth form.

I don't think it is that rare in London. A friend of DS who turned 18 a couple of weeks after the start of term, was not happy to be barred from mainstream fresher events and only offered the events put on for younger applicants. Imperial's policy is: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/administration-and-support-services/registry/academic-governance/public/academic-policy/admissions/Minors-Policy.pdf In London there will be other students who live at home and treat the University as a college providing lectures and a library, and whose social life will be based on activities with peers, rather than rely on student societies.

Elsewhere it may be more problematic. Especially if there is not an option of living at home or with relatives. The point poetryandwine makes about group work is a good one, though again in London any group will be quite diverse so it will be more about the maturity of the student. It is worth asking the University directly about the experience of younger students. .

I see another poster has suggested a specialist music school for sixth form – might this be the best of both worlds? He would be immersed in music and have access to the very highest level tuition (there is lots of crossover between the specialist schools and conservatoires/universities) and will meet plenty of other highly driven, high achieving students. But he is likely to be better supported to develop in things like group work and collaboration, and to find a peer group. At least one of the music specialist schools will allow pupils just to take two A-level (bearing in mind one can be Music), leaving plenty of time for performance, composition, production etc.

I think the group project issue is a red herring, or at least not an important consideration, as the OP has said it's one module in the last year. Nor has the OP said they're in London, so not sure why the focus on that and Imperial (which doesn't do music!) in your post @Needmoresleep

I went to university in England at 17 after being put up an academic year and so skipping one at an earlier age. As it turns out, I am also ND (ADHD) but that wasn't diagnosed until decades later.

There was no safeguarding around age then and tbh that wasn't an issue.

But it would be my concern @3StepsForward with a 16 year old ND child, particularly where if I'm reading btw the lines correctly you're using ND as code for 'autistic' (plus any co-morbidites). I have a DC with autism and ADHD and the autism is more of an issue. The Q I'd be asking, and I haven't seen it raised here so far - may have missed it - but it would be my top priority, is:

Are they going to be vulnerable to older people taking advantage in some way, and what steps can you and the uni take to ensure this doesn't happen?

And on the flip side of that in terms of the group work issue:
I did Maths A level with a proper child genius. He was about 10/11. He was already in a school year with people who were several years older, but did A level Maths with my year that was several years older still. I'd say that my year was much more patient and welcoming in a way than his form year was. Even though the age gap is much less, you may find that his university cohort give him more leeway for his attitude working in a group, especially as it might be clear to them that he's ND.

On the whole, if you can hold off so he can have a proper, live away from home if he wants university experience, the better. I think @StrangewaysHereWeCome 's idea of a specialist sixth form is great and it's what I'd do if possible.

@mrsplum2015 thank you, that is really reassuring to hear!

@Needmoresleep it will be London, which I think makes it a lot easier than a campus university where social life is more dependent on the university. From what I can gather there are a large percentage of mature students so not everyone will be 19/20 and wanting a wild time. Most are likely to be extremely focused on the work and less on the 'uni experience'. Thank you for the links!

@StrangewaysHereWeCome we are looking at specialist 6th forms, but I'm not sure they will be a good fit with the particular pathway - will explore that with the staff at the colleges and see.

We hadn't actually intended to look in this direction (didn't even know it was an option) but they have approached DC and have had preliminary discussions with me and individual teachers. On paper it seems to tick all the boxes for what they are after. I'm just nervous!

Apologies, Strangeways wasn't the only one or the first to suggest a specialist sixth form, so hat tip to @Comefromaway too.

Writerofwrongs I was using Imperial as an example of a University that seems to be comfortable with students potentially as young as 13. Not all will be. I think their policy is interesting, not least because they seem to take safeguarding seriously.

Mathematicians and musicians have plenty in common, indeed there is often an overlap. Both can be precocious, and will want to develop at their own pace. Holding a strong musician or a strong mathematician back because of their age would be frustrating.

Anyway I offered my observation in case it was helpful to OP. I am happy for her to say it was not. The observation included the fact that DD came across precocious students because they were taking part in age appropriate extra curricular activities. The focus was on London because we were in London. I have no idea whether it is as easy for a student, say in Lancaster.

It's ADHD not ASD - although some ASD traits are present in ADHD that aren't always the obvious Daily Mail story ones.

We're talking extreme hyperfocus, combined with an extreme reaction to things that are not what they want. Unfortunately because they have spent a lot of time in an adult world, people have tended to make more allowances than I would, so I suspect it may be a bit of a shock as they get older that this happens less and less.

I don't think they will be particularly vulnerable - they have experienced people trying to take advantage of them in terms of work, and seem to have a sharp eye for chancers. They have a big team supporting them behind the scenes who will be keeping tabs too, and DC relies on me a lot for general organisation so I suspect I will know sooner rather than later if that is happening. The university seem to be big on safeguarding and from conversations so far, I suspect that they will be overprotective rather than under!

I'm probably more concerned about emotional vulnerability and potential romantic entanglements (but that can happen anywhere I suppose).

I understand if you don't want to give too specific details but I am wondering about the "particular pathway" & whether any of us can help on that score.

Everything helpful because I'm not just interested in course specific stuff.

And yes - big overlap it seems with music and maths. DC's biggest fear is having to mark time for 2 years. They want to be pushed to progress as far and as fast as possible - and have concerns about having to fit into a more structured 6th form course where a lot of what is being taught they did 3 years ago.

If the course can massively differentiate for students then it could work. If they have to go back and repeat and work through at same pace as the majority then it will be a nightmare. And given there is a lot of group work from what I have gleaned, they are even less keen.