Degree at 16

[3StepsForward]

Does anyone have experience of their DC starting a degree course at 16.

If so, what were the things you wished you considered before they did? Any tips or advice? Do you feel they missed out on peer interactions? Did the university put anything specific in place.

DC would live at home rather than in halls/student accommodation. They won't have A levels, but will have some qualifications in the subject that are at a higher level and are likely to be ahead of a lot of the other students in certain areas.

Degree subject is one that needs a very particular skill set rather than needing a more rounded maturity level (if that makes sense). University are happy that they can access the course - and keen to have them (already doing things with the department).

We are looking at alternative options that would keep them with peer cohort, but it will mean repeating work they were already doing at a high level at 13/14 and is likely to be a problem for any sixth form unless they can differentiate massively and basically provide a bespoke course.

DC is also ND and has very firm ideas on what they do, are extremely persistent and stubborn and so studying something else from 16-18 is not going to fly. They are not overly interested in the social side of university life (but that could change 😱)

Just trying to spot all potential pitfalls in advance.

I would think the obvious one is as they are not an adult, there may be issues around student loans, bank account, possibly H&S issues around access to uni equipment (labs, tech?)

They might not be insured, as a child, to take part in (for example) uni sports against 18+ students.

Also they won’t be able to go drinking or clubbing - this may not be an issue ofc.

I mean none of this may be an issue for your dc iyswim!

It depends what you think university is for.

I’m not sure whether they were 16, but there were quite a few under-18s on my course at university (at the time I think Scottish students could start younger, due to the different exam system - not sure that’s still the case).

Main difference we noticed was that they couldn’t sign contracts for 2nd year accommodation and needed fake ID to get into clubs but there certainly didn’t seem to be a particular gap between them and the 18 / 19 year olds.

Having said that, I am currently doing another course and there are a couple of 15 year olds who are annoying everyone. But that’s because they’re more Donald Trump fanboys. So it really depends on your DC

If you want to keep them with peer group for social reasons could they study something g else?
Eg if the special genius subject is music, can they keep up their music skills and studying but do a levels in a modern language, business studies and art, for example and delay the degree until 18?

@clary universities are very used to having students who are still 17 in the first year, especially in Scotland. It's not an issue for clubs, societies and sports teams etc except they generally cannot hold a legal office (such as treasurer of the tiddlywinks society).

All universities will have a policy on under-18s - this is Exeter's: https://www.exeter.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/applying/termsandpolicies/under18/

I had all my qualifications and an unconditional offer when I was 16 ( Scottish) but couldn't start until I was 17 as I couldn't get funding until then.

I'm glad I didn't start any sooner as at 17 in an English university I was already young. ID can be a pain, renting outside of the university would be difficult.
And university is a great place to socialize and being much younger won't help.

Several of my daughter's friends did this. (Elite ballet/dance). My daughter herself chose not to go down that route as she didn't feel ready to live that far away from home (she would have had to move to somewhere like London) & instead started a Level 6 diploma course aged 16 that she did alongside 2 A levels.

The pros are that you get student finance for the course whereas dd's course we got a DaDa towards the fees but had to finance all her living costs ourselves. Also you are not stagnating for two years if local provision is below your current standard.

The cons are that adjusting to this is a lot for a 16 year old. Pastoral care is very different in these institutions and also for whatever reason many of dd's friends are no longer pursuing that career. So whilst they have a degree they are now pretty limited to only associated work such as teaching. Dd on the other hand is able to get student finance to retrain in another subject.

Very common in Scotland, but the social side is often a reason for deferral.

I ended up not choosing uni, but if I had I would have started three months before I turned 17, due to the normal age of sitting exams

Hi, OP -

STEM academic here. I recognise that specialist arts subjects (including Music) may be organised quite differently. But certainly we have quite a share of ND students in STEM.

One element many of them have difficulty with is group work. My (old, Russell Group) university promotes a fair amount of it, even in the classical sciences. Having ‘very firm ideas’ and being ‘extremely persistent and stubborn’ can be advantages in some situations, but group work isn’t one of them. Being two or more years younger than everyone else won’t help.

AFAIK (and while I can’t guarantee it, I think I am up to date) whilst we are very good about accommodating special needs students, neurodiversity is not a reason to be excused from group work. This has been tested repeatedly, and upheld.

Something to keep in mind.

I was sixteen for the first five months of first year. On reflection I would say I was too young. I was mature for my age, hard-working and intellectually able but very shy and it was still pretty overwhelming. You’re basically a child amongst adults. It can be difficult to be surrounded by people who are so much more worldly, for want of a better word, and they don’t often make allowances. It’s also a big shock to realise you’re nothing special when you’ve always been the most able of your peer-group. The older you are the more equipped I think you are to deal with issues of self-image and knocks to your self-confidence. It can be quite demoralising and hard to relate to people.

Also, just a thought, the earlier you start, the earlier you finish - I was fully qualified and working in a really competitive market by 21, which now makes me recoil - another couple of years of life experience would have done me no harm at all.

That said, it sounds like your DC is an exceptional individual with a clear goal. They may well find others on the same wavelength, even if they’re a bit older - STEM and music are no strangers to a prodigy or two. Perhaps the same will be true of their eventual field of employment.

As a PP said, it depends what they’re looking to get from their university experience.

Fair enough! I was thinking about ds2 who couldn’t have played in his current adult sporting fixtures (or maybe I mean it would have been a bad idea!) aged 16.

It’s also a big shock to realise you’re nothing special when you’ve always been the most able of your peer-group. The older you are the more equipped I think you are to deal with issues of self-image and knocks to your self-confidence.

Good point here from @noooooooo - this was by far the biggest issue I had at uni and wasn’t even young, just unused to the real world after a sheltered upbringing and a small single sex school. I think for someone like the dc you describe @3StepsForward there could be similar issues. Is there any scope as @Unexpectedlysinglemum suggests, for a sideways stretch?

You are very perceptive.

Group work is a problem for these reasons - and because DC is only happy to work with people at a similar or higher level than they are. It's an area that is being worked on by all their teachers in the subject, but we are all aware that it's like pulling teeth.

The degree doesn't require them to do any group work, although collaboration outside the course itself is hugely encouraged - and DC is more likely to find people at the same level than they do at the moment.

Unfortunately the courses offered for 16-18 are hugely collaborative and a lot of group work involved. DC has a glass face and if asked at interview will be brutally honest about their thoughts on that.

I've learned the hard way that telling them that they HAVE to do x or y is not normally a good thing.

Since so many have mentioned it, it is music. DC has been working with mainly adults for a number of years now and can hold their own in terms of the work they produce.

Also why a sideways stretch is not going to be of any interest to them at all.

For their particular niche, there are huge advantages to doing things early - although the learning will never, ever end.

And we have to find something for them to do from 16-18.

As they would live at home, certainly till 18, there are no issues around things like renting flats or having to cope with both the course workload and looking after general life - cooking, laundry, bills etc as we would treat it as an extension of school. Also no issues getting student finance for the course fee.

Thank you so much for replying!

Did you live at home for the first year? Would you have had the same issues if you had been more confident - or more used to working with adults where no allowance was made for age already?

It sounds like DC (with assistance I am sure) has chosen well if no group work is required!

I have some sympathy with DC for only wanting to work with equals or superiors. Whenever pupils or students say this there may be an element of snobbishness, and it is def true that in helping others we all learn. But an ND pupil (and even worse, student) on the young side is ripe for being taken advantage of, especially if v intelligent, and I’d bet your DC has been burnt.

I had a chat to a friend whose DD is doing a similar thing for dance - 3 year L6 diploma plus top up (like the courses Laines have) but there are a lot of similar aged students on those courses (DC would be the only under-18 on this one and I think the guinea-pig).

The stagnating for two years is the concern - I have looked everywhere for something that ticks the boxes and nothing is coming up.

I don’t know their particular niche, so this may not be at all relevant, but I did a music degree and there was a lot of group work, even if not formally assessed.

I am also ND and found some of the others on my course very hard to deal with socially. The group work actually wasn’t so bad (although there were people who were definitely not at the same standard as I was); it was the egos of some of my coursemates I found difficult - trying not to get too much into stereotypes here about which musicians they were!

But if your DC is just into the music that might be OK.

Lol I can quite imagine!

DC doesn't have much of an ego, more a case of they are VERY into the music and know how they want to write and how they like to work and find it very disregulating to have to work with others who aren't on the same wavelength.

Probably a bit like if you're an artist and told to paint a picture with someone else - if they're well matched for skills and way/speed of working then it might end up okay, but otherwise you're probably having a fit because other person has painted things the wrong colour, or is too slow or can't actually paint very well!

It's very hard to describe without it sounding horribly snobby, as it's really not that as much as a very deep distress over the end product not being good and feeling awful that they may have hurt the other person's feelings.

Yep.

Normally I'd have said it was a chance to study something you were interested in while spending some time developing independence and social skills before hitting the world of work.

And chances are that you'll never read another book on your chosen degree subject again in your life if you're not doing a vocational type of pathway.

If DC was wanting that then they'd 100% be doing A levels, possibly a gap year and then university.

DC wants to spend a lifetime with this subject - they need to be in full-time education from 16-18 and there is the option to study at an appropriate level academically for where they will be at 16.

But I would be a fool to not be concerned about the other parts of life and all the things that I haven't yet considered because I don't know what they are yet!

I do not want to find I have a miserable, unhappy child - and so want to ask big questions of colleges and university up front rather than any kind of 'isn't DC advanced' type of thing.

Have you looked at the Curtis Institute structure - many many younger musicians join the degree programme (or a pathway to it and on it); aimed at the very advanced soloist - I know its in the USA, but I think its fully funded. Even if not a suitable location, you may gain some insight from looking at it to see what you might want to negotiate into the set up for your DC with the UK conservatoire (?) esp if its a trial for them

My DS has a music degree and is now working as a musician.

Firstly, the music industry generally is quite collaborative in the sense that you do need to be able to play with other people/ work with sound technicians etc.

My DS spent a week recording an album with some other musicians as a session musician and it really stretched his social skills. It was basically a week of collaboration.

Secondly, is your son looking towards performing on an instrument (in which case conservatoire degree) or academic music degree? They are quite different and an academic music degree requires group work and essay writing.

Thirdly, what is the end game here? To make it as a musician professionally is hard. Most do at least some teaching, and if your DS does not like people who can't play as well as he can.... might be worth thinking about a back up plan.

Off to have a look! I've not looked overseas - mainly due to age as I can't relocate.

@3StepsForward

Would you have had the same issues if you had been more confident - or more used to working with adults where no allowance was made for age already?

I suppose there are different forms of confidence, aren’t there? Baldly, there are bullies, pricks and predators of all descriptions in every walk of life and it’s easier to roll along once you’ve known a few. Not sure there is any short-cut for experience, and that usually comes as a by-product of living. Presumably your DC has played with and studied under a diverse range of people, so they’ve got a bit of that under their belt already.

From what you’ve said about your DC’s enviable strength of personality it doesn’t sound like my issues are theirs at all.

I don’t want to come across as being negative or discouraging because your DC sounds like a someone who has the talent and drive to have a great career. The fact teachers are working on their resistance to collaborating and they are opposed to following instructions they don’t see the value in (as well as working with people whose talents they don’t rate) makes me wonder if maybe they’d get more out of study if they were able to become more accepting of these inevitabilities? Whether another year or so of focusing on that elsewhere in the curriculum would materially change things, I suppose staff (and you) are obviously best placed to know.

Good luck to them in all they do!

I take it you have looked at specialist MDS music 6th forms like Chets, Purcell.

My other child is a musician (currently at conservatoire) both mine are ND incidentally & can have similar problems with group work. For a musician rather than a dancer I would to be honest, be hesitant of starting the degree route at 16. As you say in the dance world the 16 year olds are not rare. My daughter went to vocational school aged 11 and lots move onto degree/diploma courses aged 16.

Music it is very unusual to start the degree at 16, even if they already have a diploma. I would urge caution.