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[MirandaWest]

Thought I’d start this thread in case anyone else with a DC who didn’t get an offer from Oxford (or Cambridge in a couple of weeks time) wants to say anything - I feel a bit out of place in the Oxbridge thread now but could be good to have somewhere to talk about how they are and what their plans are now.

@bbo7s just to reassure you (I know people who were involved with the CAT this year) - this is not possible.

First, MS Teams alerts you if anyone is recording a session and the tutors would have terminated the session immediately as this is against the terms of the interview. Second, there were different test questions used (designed to be to the same standard) in different time blocks because of the risk of a test question being leaked (eg a candidate not being able to resist telling their friend from the same school) so even if a test was recorded it wouldn’t have contained the same material and so wouldn’t have helped someone doing the test later. Finally, any school doing that would jeopardise all of their applicants’ chances, as it would break the non disclosure agreement and would very likely lead to offers being withdrawn if found out and the CAT score for all their candidates being declared void. So it seems very unlikely a school would decide to run that risk. So I would strongly suspect that what your DC has been told is just an urban myth.

Just popping in - DD applied for human sciences at Oxford and was rejected post-interview. She was fine on the day, it all came out the following evening but I think really just a release of stress as she has a lot going on at the moment even without the Oxford application.

I think she has probably dodged a bullet as she doesn't really like stress and pressure (or reading 😂) and has a bit of an inferiority complex at the best of times. While waiting to hear about interviews she said the plus side of getting rejected would be "I wouldn't have to go to Oxford" and I suspect her instincts at that moment were spot on. So it's a bit of a relief all round as an offer would have been very difficult to turn down. She is settling back into being herself instead of being "herself the Oxford applicant" iykwim and is more relaxed already.

She has offers from Birmingham (which she likes) and Liverpool (which she doesn't like). Waiting on Warwick (which she wants) and UCL (which she doesn't want). Hopefully 🙏🤞 Warwick will offer and she can choose between there and Birmingham after offer holder days.

You do not need to record from MS Teams to record a Teams meeting. There are several software applications, and external devices, that you can use to record.

Also increasing the number of texts used reduces the ability to standardise candidate's assessment scores.

As far as schools running the risk of assisting students is concerened, there is a difference between how some schools interpret should not and must not.

Given the farce (design/ plan/ implementaion) of the original CAT assessments I doubt enough time was available to ensure a level assessment playing field.

Also, candidates could opt to have their assessments at home rather than at school.

GCSE and A level exam information is highly sought after and is often available within the 24-hour embargo period, Why would Oxford assessment details be any different?

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/guide/admissions-tests/cat

DD4 is a final year classicist who has always been involved with interviews and open days and says the tutors have gone to great lengths to make things as fair as they possibly could, given the shitshow.

With the greatest respect, going down this rabbit hole won't be positive for your DC bbo7s.

@brawhen Same as anywhere else going by DS. Socialise with friends, takeaway nights, clubbing. DS plays a lot of sport including for a team in the city so has made friends with locals through that. It's 15 mins to Newcastle if you want more high street shops or premier league football. Can easily get to the coast for a change of scene. p/t jobs.

DD was not successful following interview for history at Oxford unfortunately.
Is putting a very brace face on it .
waiting for offers from St Andrews , Edinburgh and Durham.
Has an offer from York but one if her sisters went there , loved it, but DD not keen to follow in her footsteps!

@ScribeSev
My DS was interviewed and pooled last year for C but was unsuccessful and is now in his 1st year at Imperial and is having a fantastic time studying engineering. Work load is high but he still manages to attend many clubs and societies and has a very active social life - he said it's "work hard, play hard". Having seen one of his best mate return home from Cambridge over the Xmas holidays and saw the workload expected to be completed daily and looking very stressed, it's definitely confirmed to him that not getting to C was a blessing in disguise and he is in the best place for him. The funding they receive for clubs/ projects at Imperial is amazing and being in central London is amazing though it is very expensive.

Thanks @mumofthree22 that's good to hear

@bbo7s and other students were able to share details of their assessments.

This would never happen. Are you serious? No candidate is going to share intel to boost another candidate's chances and scupper their own

@petticuliar it is massively against the candidate’s interests but young people sometimes don’t think before venting (whether to friends or on social media) and so it’s not impossible that things of that nature happen (“OMG I messed up so badly because they asked me X and I just couldn’t remember and then they asked me Y and my mind went blank”). This is exactly why for many subjects that use reading or materials there often isn’t a single set but a selection of pre-arranged materials of the same type/standard for tutors to cycle between - otherwise the whole admissions process isn’t jeopardised by one stupid post on TSR/Insta/Tiktok. (Having a range of materials available in order to reduce this risk isn’t specific to the CAT - it’s been pretty common practice for many subjects especially since interviews went online).

In this case it wouldn’t be venting but actively cheating and that seems a lot less likely - especially as they would be risking nuking their application to benefit someone else. It seems even less likely that schools would be condoning this and colluding in the cheating. By definition schools who have many people applying to Oxford are the type of school who will also have many people applying next year too - they have a lot to lose if they get involved in a scandal which could lead to all their candidates having offers stripped from them. (Would you send your kid to a school where you feared this could happen to them?)

If there is actual evidence that this happened rather than just rumour, it ought to be reported to the admissions office who I’m sure would take it very seriously.

This is the first time any of my children/ family have been involved in the Oxford admissions process, but even with my limited experience, I find your view of Oxford candidates quite quaint.
This is because I work from a viewpoint of what can/ could be done as opposed to what someone from any background would not dream of doing.
Given that my younger DS is considering applying shortly Is it not for me to be able to demonstrate that the process has been abused but rather it is for administrators to demonstrate it cannot.
The initial assessments were shambolic and now I am expected to believe that within a couple of days, the same administrators were able to implement a robust system.
Being well-meaning does not cut it, given the competition from home and abroad for places at these institutions.
Have you seen the £1000s some companies charge for assistance with applications?
As for sharing information, what would the difference be between your DS/DD sharing the content of the assessments/ interview with yourself, teachers, their mates, and sharing with someone else?
Would this jeopardise their application? If schools used this information to prep their candidates this would tarnish their reputation?
Does this guidance from Oxford unambiguously state this must not happen?
Or are you saying that no candidate shared the contents of their assessment/ interview, with anyone, until they had received their offer? Especially when there is potentially a quid par pro on offer!
On a point about schools, there is a reason as to why coursework in most subjects are no longer in GCSEs and that BTECs have limited value in school progress measures.
I am not knocking anyone’s commitments/ efforts to a fair process, however the administrator’s Rubicon might just be another person’s fair.
Anyway, enough from me on this matter. I need to spend my energy elsewhere.

If it's on a quid pro quo basis, it would be mutually beneficial.

There's no issue of standardisation given that the substance of the CAT will be at the same level of difficulty.

My DC did in person interviews but they were all bright enough to know not to say anything at all about the specific texts and materials they were given.

I think your theory is extraordinarily implausible.

How could this potential info sharing be done on a quid pro quo basis? Candidate A might pass info to candidate B, but what does A get out of it? Unless they’re not really invested in going to Oxbridge and will do it for a handome payoff.

It’s hard to know how useful such information would be in any case, given that each interview is at least to some degree customised to the individual.

And yes, the Oxford guidelines categorically state that everything that happens in the interview is confidential.

But how does any of this help your DC @bbo7s ? There is a distinct difference from advising based on general experience to cheating by sharing texts with others which is what you have applied upthread.

The administration of tests in some subjects was problematic to say the least this year but what do you actually want to achieve by implying that some of the successful candidates in your opinion have cheated to achieve offers? As others have asked do you have evidence that this has happened?

I just don't see that there is any merit in that suggestion at all, least of all for your DC who would probably be better realising that they were a good candidate to get to an interview stage but weren't good/ lucky enough to get an offer, that means that they are exceptionally bright and will do well anywhere. For my DC it's clear from the HAT test mark that whilst he was comfortably good enough for an interview he would have had to perform superbly in an interview because they interview considerably more than they take. That's great closure and satisfying to know in it's own right. In my DCs subject different colleges interview on different things (along with the standard test) he fell unlucky with his questions, he also struggled with 4-1 interviews where some had 2-1 due to his needs, but do you know what rather than being bitter about what could have been it's much healthier to say that no system can ever be perfect and they have had to do their best to pick the candidates that they feel will fit the course.

Sorry should have said what you have implied, not applied.

DD seems to be moving on a bit which is good. She was upset yesterday (which I was tactfully ignoring as I was helping to motivate her to do some more revision before final mock tomorrow) but this morning she said she’s going to get over Oxford by getting excited about Bristol instead 😊She’s been looking at different societies and accommodation and general things about it which is good.

Brilliant news @MirandaWest.

That's good @MirandaWest - it's still early days really but I'm hoping the feelings of rejection will fade with time.

An interesting (to me) fact is emerging. The great majority of the offer holders so far at ds school have parents who went to Oxbridge or a sibling there. I also see this is quite common on Mumsnet (not everyone of course). Do you think this confers any advantage in the process?

An interesting (to me) fact is emerging. The great majority of the offer holders so far at ds school have parents who went to Oxbridge or a sibling there. I also see this is quite common on Mumsnet (not everyone of course). Do you think this confers any advantage in the process?

I think having a family member probably demystifies the process for candidates. I don't think they are being selected because they have had a family member there, it wouldn't come up in the selection process for starters.

@Lightsabre it will not in my view as an ex Oxbridge mum give any advantage whatsoever as a fact in the eyes of admissions staff.

What might help is candidate confidence and a feeling of well if my mum or dad was good enough then I can be. Also they have more knowledgeable help with interview prep. This is why many organisations are working to try to demystify the process for people without that knowledge.

I should say I know a lot of Oxbridge contemporaries where their kids have been rejected. So hopefully it’s not that much of an advantage.

@lifeturnsonadime we x posted and I agree