University Offers Coming In 23/4 - part 2!

[WombatChocolate]

Following on from the old thread which was getting full….come and share the highs and lows of the journey that is A Levels and UCAS!

This is how DD feels - she wouldn't like to be somewhere where everyone looked the same, whether they all looked like her or not. It's about diversity, not a dislike or fear of a particular group. She found Bristol a bit like that at the open day and swapped it for Birmingham which had much more of a mix of people wandering about the campus.

There are loads of comments about London being difficult because of internationals

DD also 'guilty' of this but tbf her chosen course at UCL is apparently 95% international and she's worried that foreign students are likely to be much richer than her and with a very different lifestyle. I think she imagines herself watching Netflix with a pot noodle on a Saturday night while her course mates are living it up in swanky West End clubs or jetting off to Monaco for the weekend 😂

Stoney, I see what you mean.
Yes, some young people are wanting diversity and a range of people, rather than wanting to avoid a certain type. That makes sense.
There are certainly some too who have a stereotype in mind about certain perceived groups and are keen to not be at a place with many of them. Some go on reputation and don’t even visit to see if their idea of what those people are like is right.
I suppose when people say they want diversity, in n most cases it also includes a significant number of people like them. People who think they are in a minority, understandably often feel more comfortable if there are others from that group too. Some seem to think that being from a state school or a non-selective school will make them a minority. I don’t think this will be the case anywhere, but some applicants feel like it will be the case in certain places and that seems to be a barrier to them. Worry about rahs seems to be a thing when I’m actual fact, people for go round ostentatiously displaying wealth or behaving in a ‘rah kind of way are very small in number anywhere, but somehow seem to grow in number in the minds of people who are sure they won’t like them or want to be somewhere they are.

It’s great when young people of any background are excited to embrace diversity in all its forms and to meet people from different places,Backgrounds and experiences, rather than gravitating just towards people who seem similar to themselves.

Both my DC are very keen to be with as wide a variety of people at uni as possible. DD visited a uni that proudly said it had virtually no international undergraduates and nearly all the students in that field were drawn from about 6 counties only. Put her right off.

There is a big difference between wanting a diverse student body and not wanting to be with people from a certain background or school type or whatever.

One is inclusive and one isn’t.

I suppose when people say they want diversity, in n most cases it also includes a significant number of people like them.

Maybe, I'm not sure - in DD's case she left school in our nice little town to go to an inner city FE college for sixth form because she wanted to meet new people who were different from her. Basically "everyone around here is the same and I've known a lot of them since I was four". I think many young people are really open and curious and see university as a chance to broaden their horizons and meet lots of exciting new people. I can easily see how an experience like @TiaSeeya's DS describes might be a bit off-putting, it was the same for DD at the Bristol open day. (Not that the open day is necessarily representative of the future student body but the impression she got was enough to knock it below Birmingham as far as DD was concerned.)

Gosh @stoneysongs what course has your DD applied for in UCL? Because most courses are capped for the % of international students they're allowed to take. UCL has @48% international students overall. I think my dd's course is around 50% ( Architecture) but I will have to check with her.
I'm fascinated by the diversity discussion & the Bristol description which is probably true. My DD1 went there & was initially put off by the braying Hooray Henry types, but can now hold her own with anyone. Ultimately it's been good for her & has given her a lot of confidence.Sometimes things that are scary can make you grow and be really good for you.
Yes, a very high % of international students can be a bad thing as many do not mix. My DD at UCL went to an international school & has several friends in London with her. Most live in their own flats so don't really mix much with the local students. The very odd one lives in student accommodation but it's rare.

It's Arts and Sciences @Cantonet
I find it hard to believe too, but it comes from The Uni Guide which claims to use data from HESA 🤷‍♀️

The stats according to TUG..

Also, in DD's case it wasn't a Hooray Henry thing, I don't think she spotted any of those, if anything everyone seemed pretty quiet. She wasn't scared of or judgy about the people at Bristol and didn't feel out of place, she just felt it was less exciting than Birmingham where there was much more of a mix. Obvs there are all kinds of people at every uni, but I suppose they have to narrow down their choices somehow and Bristol was a hard no because of its homogenous and I guess slightly conservative vibe.

@stoneysongs the Bristol comments were not directed to you solely. I think there were lots of people commenting on Bristol uni. I know what you mean about the lack of diversity though. Strangely enough that was something that DD being of Asian/English extraction never even noticed.
But you can pick up vibes about a place instantly can't you?I looked around Aberystwyth once with my ds & we both absolutely hated it. But most students who go there are very happy & loyal to it.

@stoneysongs those stats are surprising for that course. DD is at UCL for History and loving it. She has met mostly British, European and American students on her course and they are, on the whole, very sociable and from diverse backgrounds. Her friends doing Economics, Maths and Law have had to make more of an effort to find their tribe outside the course if they want an active social life. But the Halls and UCL bars are very sociable and the societies offer plenty of opportunities to find people you gel with. It’s a huge uni and well set up to help mixing. The sports socs particularly are great for meeting people. There’s also a lot of mixing with other London unis too. Obviously there are a number of internationals who are quiet, work hard and barely seem to leave their rooms but each to their own - it doesn’t seem to impact those that want to have a fun uni experience!

My son is about to firm UCL for history so that's good to see.

The uni stats are really interesting @stoneysongs , I've just looked for UCL for history. I can't do a screenshot on this platform but it's 74% uk 26% international for history so it does seem very course dependent.

But you can pick up vibes about a place instantly can't you?I

So true - Bristol was the first place we visited and she had high hopes because she's been to gigs in the city and we'd been to the Old Vic not long before where there were lots of very cool people out and about. But it was a fairly instant nope. Oxford was next and she wasn't mad about the vibe there either, but decided to apply for the course. Then UCL - subject talk was not as advertised which annoyed her and the trip didn't get her off the fence about living in London. I was beginning to think she wouldn't be satisfied anywhere, but then we went to Birmingham and very quickly and with a big smile she said, I really like it here. She did apply to UCL so that will get another look if she gets an offer, and she is also waiting on Warwick which she liked. Most likely Birmingham vs Warwick for firm (IF Warwick make an offer 🤞🙏).

@stoneysongs interesting stats and no dissimilar to one of DD’s choices at KCL; i do wonder what the social life experience is going to be like. I went to a London college and it was def a different - not necessarily bad - experience compared to my peers who went to a campus university. The cost and hunt for accommodation post year 1 equally worries me!

Definitely agree with this. And you know if someone chooses a uni because it’s stuffed full of people like them and that’s what they want and is important to them then also that’s fine. It’s their debt so they have to be happy with their choice is my belief.

I was starting to lose faith that DD would ever visit a uni without picking holes in it - we went to so many open days! It was either not diverse enough, too “city”, too remote, even “just not feeling it” but then finally we went to a few and you could visibly see her shoulders relax, and I swear I even caught a smile or two. Then you know they’ve found The One 😄

The "I don't want to go there because everyone is posh" plaint seems to be general one, to the point of teenage cliche. I have twice got rather acerbic with children I know who have put this forward as reason to dismiss a university, pointing out that they need to hope that their fellow students are less closed-minded than they appear to be, given that both children went to famous girls' boarding schools, and lived between large houses in London and country houses with pools and tennis courts.

It is all in what they all mean by posh, which seems to be characterised by braying, tone deaf behaviour which they , being sensitive non binary standard issue boarding schools girls, don't think evince. It doesn't seem to cross their minds that they might be judged in turn. Or that such people go to state schools too

One thing that does unavoidably come between students from wealthy backgrounds and "ordinary" backgrounds is money. And this is going to become more and more noticeable as rents go up and up and the value of students maintenance dips. Those whose parents are able to contribute freely will not have the same worries.

We work in the public sectors and don't have a lot of money. DD went to RG uni and we did have to scrimp to fund her time there. Her friends from her halls in first year were a bunch of privately educated Surrey and Hampshire girls - charming girls, lovely manners and a lot of fun - but DD did find the financial difference difficult mostly becuse they did not seem to see it at all.

Some examples:
Lunch bought in the canteen for one who had forgotten her purse "Thanks, I'll buy you a drink next time we're out" - well that was DD's grocery money and she actually did need to be paid back in full ASAP so she could eat for the rest of the week. Awkward.
She had to work on Saturdays to keep herself afloat and they were always planning fun stuff to do / days out which she couldn't come to because she had to work.
It came to a head when looking for a second year house; they were keen to pay well over the average for nicer houses with new carpets, second bathrooms etc. We just couldn't keep up with that and she ended up moving in with people whose finances were more similar - it was much easier financially thereafter.

We only encountered the ‘braying posh kids’ at Oxford. It was a class trip from one of the top London schools and they were insufferable. A bunch of them were eating outside and left all their rubbish loudly declaring they needn’t bother clearing up as ‘they (the college we were at) had staff for that’. They were loud, rude and entitled.

My son isn’t really interested in social mixes / diversity - he was only focused on the course and the teaching. I was rather glad that he didn’t vibe with Oxford at all and didn’t apply.

One of DD's classmates was very sneery about her applying to Oxford - 'OMG I can't believe you would actually want to go somewhere that's full of posh English people'. She is applying to Exeter herself so got short shrift from DD as the intake stats by school type are very similar 😂

Yeah, hate to break it to her, but Exeter is full of Oxbridge "rejects". Quite a lot of them are actually quite nice, including my DD 😁

I’m a bit confused - is it that there are two teenage girls who come from very privileged backgrounds who would rather go to a uni with more diversity? I’m not sure what is wrong with that.

Exeter is a popular destination around here because along with its many other qualities it's in that not too near, not too far away sweet spot

Oh posted too soon..

My Exeter story was just to illustrate that often those who are anti posh don't know what they're on about.

Yes, the anti-posh people often don’t really know what they mean by ‘posh’ or what they don’t like about it, but have just decided they don’t like the sound of a particular place because of rumours.

Mention of Hooray Henry’s, Rahs and other similar terms fill them with dread as being an unknown. And they sometimes conclude that everyone from a particular school type, or a particular region of the country will be Hooray Henry’s. Some never visit, so never have their pre-conceptions dispelled (or confirmed) but perpetuate them further to other potential students. Often parents also use these terms to signify ‘other’ and often even a single encounter with boorish behaviour can make a massive impression and tar a university in the minds of the young person visiting. I suppose nuance is something that’s difficult to grasp and if you’re only visiting for a very few hours, things which are small can make a big impression, because you ultimately do need to weigh them up and discard some.

I suppose 17 year olds are trying to synthesise a lot of info about a lot of places they don’t know and have to narrow their choices. They have to make decisions about what they like and don’t like. It might be campus or city, north or south, catering or self catering, and types of people is another category they seem to use a lot. They do have to use some kind of criteria for narrowing their choices. I think some see it as an exciting opportunity to meet different types of people and broaden their horizons, but also in reality, many are quite fearful about the unknown. I think it’s a reason why many areas or schools or colleges have some popular unis which lots seem to go to every year. Many, if not all like the ides of the well-trodden path, that ‘people like them’ from their areas or school or college have gone on before.

@TiaSeeya I guess my point is that they viewed other people as posh and didn't realise that perhaps some people would apply the same label to them.

@WombatChocolate I agree with your various musings.

And yes, I suspect money could be the biggest issue with social cohesion