Who are Universities accountable to?

[Hattiedoodah]

An administrative issue has arisen with dd’s University - she has two exams scheduled which overlap (final year) so that she will effectively get half the time of the other students to complete the exams. She’s tried to resolve it with the student education service team and her faculty but has hit a blank wall as they said the exam timetable is set and cannot be amended. Who is the next person up the chain? I know with secondary school, ultimately if the staff won’t address a problem then you can go to the governors. With University - who is actually accountable for the fair running of the University? This seems so blatantly unfair I can’t believe the University is refusing to address it. Thanks.

PS Seems to me you are making the same mistake

@poetryandwine With respect, if you don't have enough attention and time to deal with this properly at any one time, then I suggest for both your sakes that you wait until you do.

You completely mischaracterised what I'd said about 48 hours, whilst getting in a dig (probably purposefully) about how I'd ignore the guidance time, when I said nothing of the sort. Still waiting for an apology on that.

And no, it wasn't from one post in 2021 that I've suggested you're not currently in academics. It's from several posts, and several things. The fact that you ignored this many times before eventually addressing it in a vague way is telling. I stand by my assertion that you're not a current academic and haven't been for some years, and that you're deliberately disingenuous.

Absolutely, you do have competing deadlines in the world of work.

You also have reasonable adjustments via The Equality Act 2010.

If this particular situation happened in the workplace, I'd expect a ND person who is new to the workplace to struggle, and I'd hope they had already declared their disabilities and could be open about finding it difficult.

A reasonable adjustment can be someone simply understanding the condition-related difficulty. It could mean making it very clear that they could have conflicting deadlines, that's all that some ND people may need.

It could mean helping the individual to describe why they feel overwhelmed, and not penalising them directly or indirectly for struggling with adjusting to the change in expectations.

It could mean giving them a 10 minute break to walk around the block to adjust. It could mean helping them plan.

A reasonable adjustment doesn't have to mean extra time.

And once a ND has an expectation that conflicting deadlines may happen, they'll be better prepared next time.

I don't even understand your last post, @WriterOfWrongs , but that's fine by me.

I have don't think people here including the op fully understand the concept of 48 exams. They were brought in during the pandemic and some (not all) universities are still using them for certain subjects. You have to complete the exam/assignment within the allotted time but generally it's not meant to take more than for instance 3 hours. The only reason there's a generous time allowance is in case of computer, internet access etc issues my DD had 24 hours, dsd had 48 hours and did have two exams overlap, she moaned and complained but no extra time given as its was plenty to complete the 3 hour and 2 hour papers set, she has adhd too.

What my post to econ? I thought that was quite clear.

This one. Obviously your post to @econssjdn was clear, and possibly useful to anyone who hasn't dealt with ND people. But I am past caring.

@bobomomo to be fair, I think the OP did understand what 48 hour exams are like, at least by the middle to the end of the thread!

I don't think extra time should be given but I do think it's important for students to clearly know that there may be clashes up front, and for universities to understand why ND students may struggle with the concept. Interesting anyway that some academics on here say it's not fair.

@poetryandwine 👍

Fair point you make.

We have a two week exam period. And nothing overlaps. Mind you we don't have 6 assessments in two weeks. More like three or 4.
It looks like over assessment to me.
They wont/ change it now. But they can give extra time. The idea is that everyone is under the same pressure.
We have some 48 hour assessments in mid term. So they aren't all in Jan then there are no clashes.
You could have 2 mid term and 4 in Jan.
It's probably because getting the IT support to run 1000's of 48 hour exams isn't there in term time. We have moved away from 48 hour because we don't have the IT support. We do more in person exams now as the IT support is complex. And not available!

Ask for extra time and say that some of these exams could be in term.

Hello, OP here, just thought I would report back on progress of which, so far, there is none! DD’s personal tutor, whom she gets on very well with, has been in touch with her to say that he is sorry but he cannot help as the exam is set by the other limb of her course (ie if she was doing History and Economics, he is History, exam is economics). The dept who set the exams have failed to contact her (unsurprising given dd’s reports of them being utterly shit) as have disability services.

In terms of all the scrapping, I’m not sure what to say. @poetryandwine you seem to find it impossible to admit you know little about the real struggles of ASD and ADHD students. In addition it was this comment I have had several personal tutees with ASD. To a person they have been wonderful, and each of them has struggled with perfectionism. I know from sitting with DS officers on a number of Mitigating Circumstances panels that this is a typical (not to say uniform) ASD characteristics which I think was where you were trying to imply you understand about autism. At this point I hadn’t, I think, mentioned that dd is a perfectionist, you just assumed. It was a lucky guess, she is. But my autistic ds, for example, isn’t. He’s also pretty good at admin stuff, where dd isn’t.

@WriterOfWrongs honestly I don’t think you will receive any recognition of your efforts to express your frustration because pedantry is king and unless you can provide quotes and correct Harvard reference system standards they won’t be acceptable 😉

To those who said ‘in the real world dd will have to cope with xyz’ - I could not roll my eyes any harder. I am well aware that my dd is a square peg in a round holed world. I know her disabilities are not going to accepted or understand by most around her. I know she is going to face discrimination and disadvantage her whole life because she is not neuroTYPICAL. I also think, as I have said repeatedly (and to apparently deaf ears) that this overlap isn’t fair to ANY students, disabled or otherwise. I am proud that dd has stood up for herself, even if it makes no difference.

@bobomomo for the love of bloody Nora RTFT! I understood from the very beginning how 48 hour exams work, I said, she’s in her THIRD year, this is not her first 48 hour exams, she understands and I understand how they bloody well work!

Anyway I left this thread because it was getting so nasty, I just thought the kinder academics might be interested in my small update.

I don't believe any academics on here said it's not fair. At least, academics with experience of 48 hour exams.

These are the posts I was thinking of @JocelynBurnell that I've just gone back and found:

changename270 · 07/01/2024 09:49

It's ridiculous. I work at a uni. And we would move it. No clashes.

Paq · 08/01/2024 07:12

I work in a university and am also a student there. I would expect the departments to work together to find a solution for any student with a clash like this.
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Both posters said they worked in a university. I assumed in remembering that there were such posts that the posters were academics. Technically, neither say that they are. But I naturally presume they know what they're talking about and have experience of 48 hour exams.

@Hattiedoodah thank you! Hope Disability Services can get back to your DD soon, they really should, no matter what they say.

How big is the overlap between the two exams? Do you mean that they are both timetabled for the same 48hr period? Or is one (say) timetabled for day 1 and day 2, and the other for day 2 and day 3?

@5pot6pot7potmore one of the issues is that guidance for at least one exam - possibly both, it is unclear - is that students spend two hours working on the exam.

Many of the academics including me find this relevant. The OP does not seem to put much weight on it, to go by her posts. I am not sure how long the overlap period is.

However a PP says her whole cohort routinely ignores this guidance. If that is widespread it pretty much negates the idea that this exam structure provides greater equity. It does mean students with two exams in 48 hrs along with several other groups intended to be helped by the structure are possibly disadvantaged. (The academics have doubts that the extra time is well used by the majority. It is difficult for students to judge this.)

This we’ve learnt that perhaps in-hall exams or timed exams are more equitable, if less convenient.

Many of the academics including me find this relevant. The OP does not seem to put much weight on it, to go by her posts.

This isn't the most tactful of statements to make when the OP has left the thread because she found you derisive and is upset. I'm an academic. Part of my job is knowing when debate's become destructive. I think that point's been reached here but feel free to tell me to jog on!

A final update for anyone who posted, thankfully DD’s University disagreed with most of the academics on here and shifted her second exam so that she is getting the full 48 hours for each (just finishing the first one today!). They did not say whether they made the decision because of her disabilities but did say the decision was made in consultation with Disability services so I’m guessing they did.

So great outcome for dd, I still feel annoyed that other students may be left with the unfair situation of having less time than others in their cohort but relieved for dd. I won’t be posting again but just thought you might appreciate knowing how it ended!

Good. Pleased for dd.

I’m glad it worked out, and best of luck to your DD!

I find the concept of 48hr (or 24hr even, like they have at my DD’s uni) peculiar, but if this is the system in place, it should be the same for everyone.

Good news! Hope they go well!