Good universities for "average" achievers?

[CornishGem1975]

The message I seem to see time and time again is if it's not RG, it's not worth it. Right now RG is probably not an option for my DC, so we're looking for 'good' universities that will offer BBB for instance, rather than A's.

Been doing lots of research but it seems pretty subjective so wondering if anyone has any particular insights or experience. Does anyone have any recommendations? (For psychology if it helps).

Can we just move on from the “RG lovers”narrative and maybe just look at individual goals and needs? There’s little point in going down the RG rabbit hole when it does not apply here! Every single commentator on uni education recognises differences between unis. Obviously there are quality overlaps, as discussed here, we all agree on. Once we accept that, we might get a bit further forward.

All the evidence I’ve read on clinical psychologist training has indicated that post 92 unis provide 33% of clinical psychologists and the older unis (note new terminology!) 66%. Going to a state school is of no detriment, but grammars are over represented. Ethnic minorities are under represented.

@CornishGem1975 Once DD is at uni, they meet others with all sorts of career goals. Many take this opportunity to explore their possible career options further. They do work out what’s better for them.

It's one of the reasons we're looking at one with a placement year @TizerorFizz It might help to decide pathway one way or the other, might completely change their mind but will also be a good year of work experiences.

All the evidence I’ve read on clinical psychologist training has indicated that post 92 unis provide 33% of clinical psychologists and the older unis (note new terminology!) 66%.

Again, it does not necessarily follow that choosing a post 92 uni affects the chances of becoming a clinical psychologist. You could quote stats on the hair colour or GCSE history grade or optical prescription of clinical psychologists but it doesn't mean that any of those things is actually instrumental.

Nephew got a first in psychology from Manchester Uni, then did a masters and got a distinction. Landed a job as an assistant psychologist after a year working in a care home (deemed relevant experience). Worked in that job for a year and then got onto the University of Edinburgh three year doctorate programme for clinical psychologists, funded and fully salaried by the NHS.

Think this is a sort of normal trajectory for those who want to work as doctors in clinical psychology for the NHS. Nobody else from his course at Manchester actually went down the pure psychology route. Lots went into HR/civil service etc.

From what I understand, it is a competitive area to work in as the pay is very good once qualified (and during the doctorate training programme too - £39,000 at age 24).

Would second Hull as a great choice for psychology. In the 80s it was one of the very top Uni's in the country for psychology. People seem to have fallen out of love with Hull Uni, but it does offer the fast track doctorate programme which is super rare.

@Chocolatebars Hull runs it’s own entry system for its doctorate. It certainly doesn’t mean grads are not rejected from it.

@Hughs Whst I quoted was from academic research to inform where adjustments could be made to recruitment onto doctorates to better reflect the wider group who might want this career. You are entitled to belittle it with silly comments but others in the profession take it seriously. It may well be that recruitment to doctorate programmes is revised but dismissing research evidence that far fewer post 92 grads are clinical psychologists is childish. The report suggested that peer group, pre degree qualifications, quality of work (not necessarily uni placement) and general ability to tick all the boxes makes a big difference. Staying at home for uni was also seen as a possible disadvantage and not seeking training away from home too. So lots of influences on who gets what.

Our DC school use % students in RG unis as a selling point of 6th form and are super competitive with a local rival school about it
....but then at the ucas evening really play it down and said RG isn't the be all and end all and not to get fixated on it.
DD wants to do a creative subject at uni. She's predicted As and A* but the RG unis mostly don't offer the type of course she wants, so she's looking based on what unis offer the course, and within a certain geographical area.

@TizerorFizz

I didn't dismiss the evidence. My "silly comment" was to try and help you understand that the inference you have drawn from it doesn't necessarily follow.

I can see it hasn't worked, because now you are listing variables that might actually be relevant, yet still can't see that some of these have nothing to do with what kind of university someone studies at.

The industry may be targeting post 92 unis because that's where they can find a higher proportion of the people they are after, a bit like Oxbridge targeting state schools because they want more kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. It's a perfectly reasonable approach, but it still doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

If you say that 2/3 of clinical psychologists attended university type A and 1/3 attended type B, it doesn't follow that choice of university affects the chances of a career in clinical psychology. You would need to be comparing identical or very similar cohorts to be able to draw that conclusion. They would have to be similar in number, background, education, other opportunities, family links, ambitions, interests, ability, socioeconomic groups, geographical spread etc etc etc. What if there are twice as many students at university type A? It doesn't look so bad then. Or what if everyone at university type A wants to be a clinical psychologist and hardly anyone at university type B does? Suddenly university type B looks like the "better" choice.

Honestly, I think it's great that lots of young people are studying psychology, if only because it means fewer people misunderstanding stats and causation. Although tbf I'd be surprised if even an A level student would make this mistake.

Surrey is a fantastic uni - location is brilliant, very well served with transport on and off campus, has a really villagey feel, loads of facilities. Guildford is a very nice place too, safe, low crime etc. I thrived there and didn't want to leave!

My DC do not attend Bangor. I do have a DC applying this year elsewhere so am hanging out in the HE forums. I am a doctoral level psychologist with colleagues in the school. Bangor had not been mentioned in posts prior to mine so I mentioned it with the intention that anyone reading might look into it.

Bangor is BPS accredited at undergraduate level, has a range of professional post doctoral training programmes, has excellent TEF and respectable REF. They have a long history supporting students with dyslexia which has allowed them to build excellent support for students with additional needs.

But, alas, not for my DC who fancy a bit more excitement.

@Hughs Lets give up on any research then! You cannot control every aspect of any research. The research was done to try and look at any elements which could be improved regarding entry to doctorates. Glad you know better then the researchers.

Honestly, I recommend you study psychology, it would really help you understand how research is carried out and what inferences you can and cannot draw. I haven't said anything that someone with the most basic knowledge would disagree with 👍

Both my DDs are what I would term "non-stellar" academically (they are bright, but achieved Bs rather than A*s at A level). Both chose to do Psychology degrees and I really rate the universities they went to - both have good reputations, not just for Psychology, and are definitely amongst the top 20 or 30 in the UK.

DD1 went to UEA, and did a four-year course - Psychology with a Year Abroad. She spent her 3rd year in the US, which she very much enjoyed (although Covid did affect some of her time there). I think there is also a placement year option. Norwich is a great city, perfect vibe for her.

DD2 is currently at Sussex, which is in Brighton, a fab place for students. She got her place via Clearing, but has had no trouble academically, even though the usual entry requirements are higher.

Getting lower A level grades might initially limit the choice of university as PPs have correctly pointed out. But bear in mind that once your DC has a degree, the vast majority of professions and industries won't give a monkey's what your A level grades were (the exceptions to this appear to be law, City financial institutions and a few others). A levels are, in a lot of cases, merely a gateway to the next stage.

Interestingly when applying for a Masters, very very few universities ask for A level grades as they deem academic qualifications taken a minimum of 3 years earlier and which bare little similarity to university-style teaching and learning are of no relevance.

@CornishGem1975 my DD2 got similar grades (from a then not terribly good Secondary Modern), did a broadly vocational degree at a post 92 university and discovered during her placement year that it wasn't her vocation at all 😂More importantly, she also discovered that she could aim much, much higher than her A level results would suggest, and has since done exactly that.

UEA ? Well established, on campus and lovely city.

Looks good @Potofteaplease but AAB so probably aspirational. (Not eligbile for any contextual offers).

If you filter out all the relatively pointless debate upthread and factor back in what you actually asked there are some good suggestions on the thread!

I triangulated the grades you mentioned against the Times Good University Guide (it's behind a paywall but I think it is the best one) and came up with( :

Bangor
Aston
Essex
Portsmouth
Northumbria
Nottingham Trent
Oxford Brookes
Chichester
UWE
Suffolk
Plymouth
Kent
Sunderland
Lincoln

All in top half of league tables. Haven't checked entry requirements but most of these I would think would be ABB downwards to about BBB /BBC

Thanks @Piggywaspushed Aston is a high contender but was put off really by the fact it is heavily a commuter university. Nottingham Trent is already on the list but there's definitely a few there we hadn't considered.