Good universities for "average" achievers?

[CornishGem1975]

The message I seem to see time and time again is if it's not RG, it's not worth it. Right now RG is probably not an option for my DC, so we're looking for 'good' universities that will offer BBB for instance, rather than A's.

Been doing lots of research but it seems pretty subjective so wondering if anyone has any particular insights or experience. Does anyone have any recommendations? (For psychology if it helps).

It makes sense to go for an accredited degree if you want to go on to the doctorate or if you aren't sure what you might do next or later on, and want to keep as many options open as possible. (Although it's not vital, you can get there without a BPS accredited degree.) Plenty of people do psychology degrees that aren't accredited, so it's clearly not always important to students.

That last sentence is pretty wild, what obscure promises are involved when someone applies to do psychology? What careers are hidden away somewhere difficult to find? Where is that somewhere?

@crazycrofter Yes. Psychology is a gateway degree for many. That should be made much clearer at the outset in my view. As she didn’t know she wanted to be an OT at 17, how did she know not to do a history degree? Years ago you could do the OT 2 year course with no degree. Post A level. A family member did it post English degree.

DD1 volunteered with a DV charity whilst doing her BPTC course. She is now a family barrister. DV lawyers are solicitors first.

Worth looking at the non-RG non former polys so Bangor Swansea and Leicester plus Aberdeen Oxford Brookes and Nottingham

@TizerorFizz she knew she wanted to work in mental health - either psychologist/OT/mental health nurse - do history would be no good for any healthcare professions.

Entry requirements for nonRG Bath is A*AA

@CornishGem1975 is a degree required for your DD's chosen career path?

The way I would do it is look at the rankings for the subject in various different ranking sites then look at which ones would take BBB

@londonmummy1966 Oxford Brookes and Nottingham Trent are former polytechnics. Not that that is a problem. They are post 92 unis. Whereas you do not mention UEA and Surrey which are longer established non Russell group unis which have a broad range of academic subjects and societies.

Hopefully, @CornishGem1975 and DC are on top of it.

A 30 second search gives
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/psychological-therapies/roles/clinical-psychologist

"Training is a three year full time taught doctorate programme"
"You'll need a psychology degree recognised for the "Graduate Basis for Chartered Membership " by the British Psychological Society."
And as Tizer eluded to -
"There is also a high level of competition for places on the 30 training programmes in the UK."

If OP/DC hasn't already I'd be looking at what it takes to get on the training programme - are they looking for certain Unis/Top X, are they looking for a 1st/2:1min, etc, etc.

In fact, further down on that page it has a 'Find your (Uni) course' section!

Edit - sorry, not Undergrad

Genuinely what is the issue with the "post-92" universities? There seems to be such a snobbery and it always seems to be said in an almost derogatory tone. Or is that just a Mumsnet thing?

A Mumsnet thing!
Or more accurately, a thing for parents who have DC who get AAA plus and go to a 'top' Uni.

TBF @CornishGem1975, as mentioned, I think the conv would have been different if the question was different.
As soon as RG is mentioned (in any thread), it turns into a divide (rightly or wrongly).
Your question is about BBB (ish) Unis, not whether they are this group or that group.

I get that @stubiff My reason for mentioning it in the first post was that I've come across threads and comments that basically say there's no point if they're not RG and therefore making out that there are no good ones!

DC doesn't care about RG, we visited a couple on open days and weren't won over. On the other hand, loved ones that weren't RG. It's certainly not important to me - we just want to make a realistic shortlist of good universities that would be achievable with a BBB - regardless of whether they are RG or an ex poly. From that we'll do more research into the actual course and graduate prospects etc and also if it's somewhere they would actually want to be.

Sorry, going to correct myself.
Some parents, not all, obviously. Before someone jumps on me!

@CornishGem1975
Maybe you've done this already, hopefully.
Start with the CUG Psychology list.
Start at Surrey, as we know it's ABB (IIRC) and a possible aspirational choice.
Work downwards looking at entry tariff (there will be quite a few below it with AAB/AAA+ however), down to BBC or BCC.
Double check those above Surrey in the list, just in case (but likely to be higher tariff).
You can view courses and the entry tariff all from the same list (within CUG). But safest to check the actual Uni course page because sometimes they are different.

The 'good' bit generally interests me. There are numerous threads about 'recommend some Unis'.
What makes a Uni 'good', or well respected or well regarded.
Using @SwottyDaisy as an example, not picking on you!
"Bangor is strong for psychology"
Says who (in addition to Swotty), why/how are they strong, is it that a DC went there are got a half decent job (small sample), it's hard to know what data/evidence there is.
If an NHS recruiter came on and said something like "all we're looking for is a 2:1 min", then....

I can say Man City are a good football team because of the League table. I can say Luton aren't as good, by comparison.

Thanks @stubiff that's helpful.

When I say "good", I'm really meaning an all-rounder I suppose. Good course, good teaching, good pastoral, nice enough area (we're not that fussed if city or campus but safe would be ideal!), and also good for social life, societies and events etc and good for career prospects.

Maybe looking for a golden unicorn!

Dd went to a post 92 uni. Got a first class degree and got a well paid graduate job in a sector where there’s very few graduate training contracts/jobs. One job she applied for had 1500 applications in under a week! Think she got the 3rd job she applied for. So there is definitely hope for the non RG students.

@CornishGem1975 You have been given loads of unis that would look at a BBB student. Not much point worrying about RG really as most of them do want higher grades. With BBB (say) and a lower ranked uni, you might need to look at future progression to a doctorate. As these are competitive and usually need experience, you would have to plan carefully.

My DD is a barrister and she doesn’t have AAA at A level. She’s probably unusual. So being savvy and ticking every other box makes sense. However most barristers have not been to post 92 universities. It’s something that goes hand in hand with competitive areas of work. Not exclusively obviously but the odds are stacked against you.

It might also be a good idea to look at percentages of firsts given. Many going on to do doctorates will have firsts. As these awards have multiplied in recent years far more grads are eligible for the further training.

As has been said, different unis suit different DC. The A levels they get do mean that certain unis are open or closed to them. Bath, not RG, is a top choice for Psychology but would not take BBB. Post 92 will be open to her and, if she likes them, that’s what matters but do look at future progression into this career for their students. How many actually make it? As mentioned above, how many even want that career in the first place? Surrey has placements in HR and marketing.

@TizerorFizz As I've said, she wants it NOW, that might possibly change once she gets into all. I fully expect it to, she's only 17 after all.

I would suggest looking at the course structure. My son managed to get the three A’s he needed even though his predicted grade in two of his 4 subjects were high B/A ’s (extra time with his teachers at state college and an expensive but excellent revision residential helped too). The practical element of the course he was choosing at Uni was more important to my son as he was desperate to get out of the classroom so his first choice Uni was based on this. One of the RG Unis actually let one of his friends in who achieved a B not an A in one of their specified subject A levels but his Uni which is not a RG refused. Really look at the course structure and if your child is a top B prediction consider private tuition or a revision residential because IME it made the difference for my son and it was money well spent.

It’s something that goes hand in hand with competitive areas of work. Not exclusively obviously but the odds are stacked against you.

The fact that there are fewer post 92 graduates in competitive areas of work doesn't necessarily mean that it's harder to get into competitive areas of work from a post 92 university. (A psychologist would understand this - they are big on investigating directions of causality and confounding variables.)

The BPS accreditation makes the distinction between unis less relevant, as these courses have to include certain content in order to be accredited. A bit like all medicine degrees teach the same stuff, although psychology does have more flexibility of content than medicine.

@CornishGem1975 if it's any use, I love a bit of research to distract me from my work, so when dd was seriously considering going for clinical or educational psychology, I did some fairly extensive research! Amongst other things, I searched for psychologists on LinkedIn, living in the midlands area, who'd graduated in the last 10-15 years or so. The only thing they all had in common was about 4-5 years very varied experience between degree/masters and getting on the doctorate. Some had firsts but lots didn't. They were graduates of a whole range of unis, from Oxbridge to post-92 unis. So I concluded that the most important things must be breadth of experience and the strength of their applications/performance at interview.

Can someone explain how the accreditation works, DS is doing a degree in a subject that has a professional accreditation? He is at a university that is probably frowned upon by the RG lovers but he will end up with the same accreditation as if he went to an RG university. So why would employers discriminate between universities? If more employers are doing ‘blind’ hiring then university choice also shouldn’t impact employment opportunities

CornishGem1975, you probably know this already, but if your DD is doing a EPQ, many Uni's will offer a grade lower than their standard offer if they achieve a specified grade. So BBB rather than ABB. This could offer up more options if it applies to your DD.

Just had another blind search on LinkedIn and come up with - Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Durham, Warwick (so the expected unis!) plus Bangor, Leicester, Surrey, Nottingham Trent, Birmingham City, Royal Holloway, Aston, Liverpool John Moores.