Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

School giving ridiculously low predicted A level grades

114 replies

basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:02

Do teachers/schools benefit from giving pupils ridiculously low A level predicted grades for UCAS? My DD's school - a grammar - is predicting everyone really low grades (lower than their achieved grades at end of yr12 and start of yr13) and refusing to change them. They forced parents to sign a form saying that we would not attempt to challenge their grade decisions (legal advice please!). So these kids are now unable to apply to or secure offers from universities that they could reasonably aspire to and will probably actually get the grades for in the real exams next summer - no point in having the grades without the offers...So a lot of these kids are distraught and going to be forced to either go to a lesser uni or take a gap year so they can apply with their achieved grades next year. How does this benefit the school at all? My DD said another pupil overheard a teacher saying that he would get a pay rise if the pupils achieve a higher grade than what he has predicted them. A bonus for it looking like the pupils had progressed under his tutoring. Can this be true? It is beyond appalling if it is true. Ruining kids future opportunities for monetary gain...?

OP posts:
BCBird · 20/11/2023 20:05

No we do not benefit from giving lower than expected grades

Twilightinnovember · 20/11/2023 20:08

We don’t

But that’s not to say there’s some strange truth in it. Performance management targets mean you can’t always progress up the pay scale without having achieved targets. It’s pretty shocking if it’s been understood correctly though. I’m not sure where you stand legally but that really is awful.

Original poster
basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:09

So why does DD's school insist on these low grades?
Some of DD's friend were predicted A for Physics but that was downgraded to As - the reason given was that "no-one last year achieved an A, even those who were predicted them" so does that mean that this year's cohort have to suffer due to the poor performance of last year's yr13? Doesn't seem fair

OP posts:
Original poster
basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:09

A star for Physics

OP posts:
LimeOrangeLemon · 20/11/2023 20:11

This is really odd. I'm sure schools don't benefit in this way. I would make an appointment to see the head of sixth form to discuss your DD's predictions.

AlwaysFreezing · 20/11/2023 20:11

Lots of schools were shocked last year. They're adjusting accordingly.

itsmyp4rty · 20/11/2023 20:13

Mine's school dropped all their predicted grades as their Y12 exams had been marked to old grades boundaries and 2023's were much higher (10% I think in maths). Could this be what happened at yours? We were able to request that aspirational UCAS grades were submitted rather than actual predicted grades though.
Weirdly shocking that they made you sign to say you wouldn't challenge their grade decisions - was that before you knew what their grade decisions were?

Original poster
basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:15

The school have made it clear that we are not allowed to challenge them or question them about this. Signing that form that promised we wouldn't question their judgement on predicted grades. Do other schools do that? It's all so shady. And there's no parent teacher association and the governors are in the school's pocket.

OP posts:
Original poster
basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:17

The form was quite some time ago, back in year 12

OP posts:
RSintes · 20/11/2023 20:17

It's to prevent the complacency rot: "I'm predicted an A* already so I don't need to do any work"

Also we've only just started Yr 13 and they've not done yr 13 level mock papers which are always much harder.

Grade boundaries last year were horrendous and took everyone by surprise so a lot of places are being deliberately cautious.

What some places do is use a realistic aspirational grade for UCAS rather than the actual one. If an offer is made on that basis then that's the motivation to the students to work for it.

itsmyp4rty · 20/11/2023 20:19

basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:15

The school have made it clear that we are not allowed to challenge them or question them about this. Signing that form that promised we wouldn't question their judgement on predicted grades. Do other schools do that? It's all so shady. And there's no parent teacher association and the governors are in the school's pocket.

I've never heard of signing an agreement like that - what would have happened if you didn't sign? A PTA wouldn't be any help, they just raise money for school. Governors would probably be your best bet normally - but maybe not in this case. Are there any Governors with Yr 13 kids?

Original poster
basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:19

Why should this year's yr13s suffer just because last year's cohort were shocked and didn't do well? Last year's yr13s hadn't done any exams - they didn't do GCSEs, so no wonder they were shocked by A levels. This year's yr13s have at least got through their real live GCSEs

OP posts:
LimeOrangeLemon · 20/11/2023 20:22

The lower results last year weren't because they were "shocked", it was because grade boundaries were deliberately changed to bring the results down. And I think the expectation is that this year's grade boundaries will be in line with last year rather than previous years.

flotsomandjetsome · 20/11/2023 20:24

I'm a bit confused by the signing to say you won't challenge the grades.

I didn't think parents could challenge predicted grades anyway - unfortunately they are whatever the school say they are. Which I agree is not ideal as some schools are cautious and some completely the other way.

It really would be a better system if app,cations could be done on actual grades achieved, but no idea how the logistics of that would work.

itsmyp4rty · 20/11/2023 20:24

RSintes · 20/11/2023 20:17

It's to prevent the complacency rot: "I'm predicted an A* already so I don't need to do any work"

Also we've only just started Yr 13 and they've not done yr 13 level mock papers which are always much harder.

Grade boundaries last year were horrendous and took everyone by surprise so a lot of places are being deliberately cautious.

What some places do is use a realistic aspirational grade for UCAS rather than the actual one. If an offer is made on that basis then that's the motivation to the students to work for it.

The problem is without A star predictions there are a lot of of courses and unis they just won't get into. I'm not just talking Oxbridge either. Bath, Southampton etc require 2 A stars to get into comp sci. If a school refuse to predict A stars it might rule you out of most if not all of the top 10 uni's for comp sci and other highly competitive courses.

Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 20/11/2023 20:25

I know a lot of kids didn’t get their expected grades and Uni’s then accepted them. If the whole world moves, it’s the same outcome.

Absolutechaos · 20/11/2023 20:25

Last years' cohort wasn't shocked because they didn't sit GCSEs - the grade boundaries were changed to be much closer to 2019 ie the covid inflation was removed. I believe a further but much smaller adjustment is due in the next round of exams as well. Schools were used to the covid levels so they are now adjusting expectations. It may be that they are being slightly conservative but I doubt they are far off.

itsmyp4rty · 20/11/2023 20:26

flotsomandjetsome · 20/11/2023 20:24

I'm a bit confused by the signing to say you won't challenge the grades.

I didn't think parents could challenge predicted grades anyway - unfortunately they are whatever the school say they are. Which I agree is not ideal as some schools are cautious and some completely the other way.

It really would be a better system if app,cations could be done on actual grades achieved, but no idea how the logistics of that would work.

Mine was downgraded to a most likely outcome grade A and a UCAS grade A for one subject - we requested the UCAS grade be put back up to an aspirational A star and it was.

Original poster
basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:29

So these pupils are achieving - in their end of year 12 exams and start of year 13 exams - A and A star grades but are being predicted for UCAS Bs and Cs, thus affecting which universities they can apply for, and throwing any dreams of med school out of the window. How is that fair? And how does this school benefit from low predictions???

OP posts:
user701 · 20/11/2023 20:35

I can’t believe an A star student would be predicted a C. That wouldn’t benefit anyone. Just challenge it if you feel the grade is wrong. A signed piece of paper means nothing in this context.

but the reality is that schools have been over predicting for years so adjustment back is needed

Dafrty · 20/11/2023 20:36

How do you know if they are achieving if there is such a discrepancy between end of year exams and predicted grades? Genuine question. Also, did the school get caught out over-predicting last year? Is this constant across all teachers?

flotsomandjetsome · 20/11/2023 20:37

@itsmyp4rty

Ok thanks. I think as with much of this, the variation between schools is what makes me the most uncomfortable.

DS did A levels last summer, most of his cohort narrowly missed one or two grades, grade boundaries were higher (as expected) but certainly for the subjects he took, were used on very difficult exams, so the usual way of evening out results (easier paper = high boundary / harder paper = lower boundary) didn't apply.

With regard to last year's yr 13 'not sitting GCSEs' again, there was an astonishing variation of how schools came up with the TAGs.

DS school sat exams in the hall, two papers per subject, obviously internal, but made to emulate the conditions and difficulty of previous GCSEs. Whereas some of his friends schools had no exams at all.

With all of this a level playing field is what's missing - how you would ever get one though is the million $ question !

Absolutechaos · 20/11/2023 20:37

@basilmum the school doesn't benefit from deliberately under predicting and having their students miss offers they might have otherwise been eligible for. That's the point. They will be trying to predict accurately, although that's an almost impossible task.

It's a rubbish system and should be changed to applying after results to be fairer. But as it stands, the students who do better than predicted will need to take a gap year and reapply unfortunately.

user701 · 20/11/2023 20:37

basilmum · 20/11/2023 20:29

So these pupils are achieving - in their end of year 12 exams and start of year 13 exams - A and A star grades but are being predicted for UCAS Bs and Cs, thus affecting which universities they can apply for, and throwing any dreams of med school out of the window. How is that fair? And how does this school benefit from low predictions???

I suspect those A stars in year 12 were adjusted grades and only reflected a tiny part of the course.

LimeOrangeLemon · 20/11/2023 20:39

This sounds crazy OP. Honestly I would forget about the letter you've signed and keep contacting the SLT until you get some answers.

Swipe left for the next trending thread