Oxbridge- more likely to get in if live in rough area?

[jennylamb1]

Our son (13) has a passion for history, and is bright with his assessment on entry to school putting him in the top 6% on midyis in general and top 1% for verbal language. He has Asperger's so some social and communication issues but teachers have also said that he has an excellent memory. He attends a private school since the smaller class sizes are more supportive of his autism, it's a mainstream. We have a few years yet, but being aspirational for him I was wondering about Oxbridge. He will go to a non-private 6th form college. We live in quite a deprived area which scores 1 and 2 on the Polar and Acorn measurements. Would this realistically give him much of an advantage?

No, this is a myth. The percentage of kids from private school attending oxbridge relative to kids from state school is going down a tiny bit. This alarms Telegraph readers whose privilege is a tiny bit less. But overall, kids from private school are massively over-represented at elite universities relative to the population.

If you live in a rough area - it can mean you get a ‘contextual’ offer.

They do it by postcode, not school. School ‘rankings’ are too subjective so they go by socioeconomic factors where you live. It’s a blunt tool, but can work to your advantage is you get a good school but live somewhere less great.

But for the most part they just care about your results.

Sorry, just ignore my earlier point when I seemed to have a kind of reflex response to reading the thread title alone. I don't think it makes a huge difference but you can get contextual offers that nudge the bar a little in your favour.

No this doesn't apply to Oxford. The only thing that gets contextualised is GCSE grades and you can get some help with foundation years etc. But the entry requirement is the same offer for all. I think some categories are more likely to be interviewed.

I think that it is the same for Cambridge but someone might come on to say otherwise.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/after/contextual-data

this document will help - explains a variety of different flags that Cambridge use. I assume Oxford is similar.

Thank you. History at Oxford seem to have a scheme where he could go to a summer school etc. with some contextualised data making a difference in eligibility. Totally get that he would need to get great grades more than anything.

Not an expert in contextual offers, but I am a mother of a history loving child with autism who has applied to Cambridge this year.

My understanding is that his application will be flagged and both universities are keen to widen access - but it is still a competitive process. Oxbridge do not offer lower grades for contextual candidates unlike may other universities. If he is at a state sixth form he may also qualify for more outreach opportunities like residential courses and mentoring schemes.

That said, it would be best for you son to have as competitive application as possible. Early days so keep allow his interests to develop. Make sure his GCSE results are as strong as possible as they will be contextualised against others at his school and this may or may not be adjusted further due to living in a bad area.

I have wondered given there is an advantage atm for privately educated children to switch to state sixth form that some parents will consider moving to poor areas as well - people do it for primary school after all. This is clearly not the case for you.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/statistics could help you quantify any advantage. I don’t know if there is an equivalent for Cambridge.

The idea that a family would uproot a happy child from their school and even up sticks and move the whole family to a shit area just to get into a particular university actually blows my mind. Do people do this in real life?!

Thank-you Jaxx, good to hear about another history loving autistic son! We are from a working class background hence the area we live in, however have worked hard to do the best for our son, will see what grades he gets for GCSE.

https://www.mansfield.ox.ac.uk/

Moving a child to state for sixth firm doesn't give any advantage - the universities aren't ignorant of this idea, though I'm not suggesting you are moving him for this reason. They will know where he took his GCSEs.
Oxbridge is difficult for any candidate but your postcode and Asperger's could help with other universities that may offer a grade or even two lower. Cambridge does ask about mitigating circumstances and imagine do does Oxford, but do not drop offer grades.

No they don't, only in Mumsnet world. They would have to be very, very stupid indeed.

Cambridge does ask about mitigating circumstances and imagine do does Oxford, but do not drop offer grades.

They don't drop grades, but some courses (mostly stem) may ask for more than the minimum offer for kids from privileged schools.
Just attempting to level the playing field a bit rather than that kids from rough backgrounds are at all more likely to get in!

There is an advantage of switching to state for A levels.

https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/26244

This is the article mentioned it most recently (latter half). If you want more info, you will have to search for it yourself.

A good proportion of new joiners at my son’s state sixth form we’re from the private sector - but there is a lot of movement at this time anyway and I do not know what their motives were.

The moving to a poor area was more of a musing - I have no idea if anyone has done it or is likely to. Like with primary admissions before the crack down, a family wouldn’t necessary have to move to get an address to apply from.

I apologise for sidetracking this thread.

I wonder whether people will start renting places in the 'worst' area possible for the UCAS application, but not actually moving there. A bit like the opposite of renting in the catchment of the best state school, but consderably cheaper.

People who do it for schools risk getting caught and the place removed but I am not sure whether universities do the same thing.

No sidetracking at all Jaxx, interested in all input! 🙂 our local 6th forms are all local authority, son's private school doesn't have a 6th form at all. It may be that our son would stay at home and go to university locally given his autism, to save on cost of renting and because he is hugely shy and may need some more support mental health wise. However, he may grow in confidence and be attracted by a university which has an excellent history department. Good to know all the options. 🙂

@jennylamb1 Oxbridge may suit your DS very well. On some courses there is a high percentage of ND students. College accommodation may suit him too. Oxbridge cheaper than many other Unis for accommodation costs is another consideration.

Thanks Concran, yes have seen the link there! I'm pretty sure his (excellent) history teacher at school has Asperger's. He is really interested in the medieval period.

It is really hard to predict how they will change and what will be best for them in the future. In the last six months, my son has grown in confidence enormously. He has a part time job and has used the money to join a gym (he hated team sports at school) and to go away on a short holiday with a friend. I could not have predicted this even a year ago. Even then I still made him apply to a local college, just in case he wanted to stay home.

Oxbridge is a good choice for neuro diverse children. The collegiate system is very supportive and you can often stay in college accommodation throughout the course. The accommodation charges also stack up very well against other universities. Your son is clearly bright, so I think it is right for it to be on your radar. Unfortunately it is hard to get a place - though History is a lot less competitive than many other courses. All you can do is get them in a position to be able to apply (A level predictions, super curricula etc), but it is too early for that now. Then it is just a matter of waiting to see if they are one of the lucky ones selected.

You sound like a great mum Jaxx.

But not much by a level results

Families do move their children to state sixth forms though.

And then they expect under funded sixth forms to offer the same advantages and same level of support as private.

That depends on whether A-Level results are considered in context or not @Revengeofthepangolins.

Oxford looks at where your GCSE exams were sat as they are wise to 6th firm changed to gain a perceived advantage. Please take this in the spirit in which it is intended, but the fact that a DC has had all of the advantages of a private education for the GCSE years outweighs the postcode area they live in. If a DC has additional learning needs, this is also factored into their GCSE results and predicted A level grades through the support they receive such as extra time or a private room to sit their exams in. These measures have already levelled the playing field.

It is a myth that widening participation candidates get reduced offers. They don't. Their results are simply looked at in context. My own DD's GCSE and (covid) A level results would have had many a MN poster squealing about how unfair the system is as she didn't get straight grade 9s or A stars unlike their privately educated DC. However, her results were exceptional for our area where less than 30% get 5 GCSEs including maths and English. She exceeded the standard Oxford offer (they make exactly the same one to everyone regardless of their WP status) and has just graduated with a degree mirroring those from more advantaged areas.

They look at many factors - mainly how a student has performed relative to the school cohort; POLAR and ACORN quintiles; other mitigating circumstances. They try to look at everything in context - eg. they ask about parents professions and whether they themselves went to uni. They know that children who might seem disadvantaged by their local schools, may, on the other hand, have loads of support / insight into the process at home because have parents who went to Oxbridge themselves etc. They know themselves that 'academics' are not always of the high-earning variety; while a child in independent schools may have parents who might be 'wealthier', but who are less able to support the student at home academically. They also look at any SEN. In short, it's far more nuanced than 'state school v private school'. They know some private schools are useless and some state sixth forms are excellent because they have access all the school profile pages which state things like average GCSE / A-level grades, class sizes, % for whom English is a serving language, % on FSM, OFSTED ratings etc.