daughter been withdrawn from uni in fourth year

[imperialqueen]

I would be so grateful for some advice on behalf of my daughter. She has started the fourth year of a social work degree last month and is on her final placement.

She contacted a lecturer today as she couldn't get into her honours folder on line. The lecturer told her she has been withdrawn from the course because she failed a 2nd year resit. She sat the exam in May 2022, resat it in December 2022 failed again, then resat in May 2023 and she said she thought she passed the May 2023 resit as she got 41%.

The lecturer who got back to her today just said a resit is 45% so she has failed for a 3rd time.

She is obviously quite upset and is saying she has emailed the lecturer back and the lecturer is not getting back to her. She is in her final palcement at the moment and isn't sure what to do.

She is quite distraught as this was a 2nd year exam and she has passed all of 3rd year (although not sure if she has all her 3rd year results back). and now in 4th year.

I am so upset too, a 3rd and 4th year saas fees have been wasted on the course. She is dyslexic and going through an adhd assessment (due to get final one next week).

She is adamant there is no phone number she can phone to speak to anyone to help her and let her know what to do. Whether just to leave the placement now or what. She says she doesn't have a personal tutor.

She has emailed the head of social work at the uni.

She has never missed a lecture or been late with an assignment or missed a day of 3rd year placement or 4th year. I know she has to be able to do the academic side too but I wondered if there is anything she can do now.

i didn't go to university and she is my first child to go. So I don't have anyone to ask for help.

Oh the head lecturer has just emailed back saying she failed the 3rd attempt and she had 10 days after they emailed her telling her she was withdrawn to appeal and that 10 days has elapsed.

She is saying she didn't receive the emails. I am thinking she didn't check.

Is there no hope now? So sorry for it being so long. I am so upset for her.

Life lesson I suppose for her.

Robbini thanks for asking. She has put in an exceptional circumstances or exemption appeal (as advised by student services) and an appeal as advised by the head lecturer. Not sure she is allowed to put these two appeals in but they went in last week.

She emailed he head lecturer yesterday asking if there were any time scales on the above and she told her there is no time scale.

She has cancelled the funding for fourth year successfully. Though she might have to pay for those first 2/3 weeks she did of fourth year.

She has been working in a part time job and has managed to get overtime this week and next week so at least she is being kept busy.

I will update again as soon as we hear anything.

@imperialqueen Good that she has submitted everything and is busy to keep her mind off it. Pray everything works out for her 🙏 💐

I don’t get how they can only let her know now for something taken in may? But my DS had something similar but onlyin year one, he failed one assignment and had to resubmit and it was a pass , this was feb.
then in august they contacted to say he had handed the resub in late. He emailed proof that he hadn’t and they never responded but just gave him 2 weeks to redo. Well that was it for him , he was not 100% on going back so he never did the work and left, but I was annoyed it took them from feb to august to tell him that he needed to redo ? Surely should of been told at the time?

Hope it works out for your dd but think its really poor how they run these things and to the uni admin who said they have proof email sent , that is not proof of receipt, emails do sometimes get stuck etc

@chopc being a great uni student doesn’t automatically make you great at your job and vice versa. Some people just don’t do the academic bits but could be superb at the actual job

Usually students are told at the time but either have their heads in the sand or are going through a chaotic time (long or short) and don't read it at all/properly.

I am glad about the fees, OP, and the appeals situation sounds reasonably encouraging although far from guaranteed. I hope it works

For those commenting on the fact that the student should have been told earlier etc, there has been a marking strike by some academics at some institutions in Scotland, with results showing up very late - well past summer graduations for some institutions - so a second year resit taken a year after the original exam will not have been a marking priority. A lot of stuff gets delayed as follows ons from that including termination of studies processes which, allowing time periods for appeals etc is possibly why the official notification that her studies was after the start of her placement. However, if they have terminated her studies the fees should automatically be refunded as she was never eligible to start the semester.

I used to work in this area and this is a particularly complex case, which would have required negotiations between registry, academic school and support services and would have needed to go up to the dean for discussion and approval, and honestly could have gone either way depending on the academics involved, so best of luck.

That's actually what happened to me. I had to wait a year out of uni. I was gutted but on hindsight I understand why they didn't want me to undertake a whole stressful 3rd year if I wouldn't be able to pass my 2nd year / graduate.

An update and a bit of advice please. I am so pleased you all gave my daughter and I great guidance and advice a month ago.

Since last month, my daughter has been trying to find out from the head lecturer of her course if there is a 20 credit level 2 course she can do anywhere that would then be allowed to take her 340 credits up to 360 credits making it an ordinary degree.

This same lecturer came back to her last week to tell her the appeal had been unsuccessful. My daughter replied asking again about how she could make the 20 credits up or if this is possible, and told her she has now received an official diagnosis of ADHD. She received this 2 weeks ago.

The lecturer replied that she has spoken to the assistant head of learning and teaching quality about daughters adhd diagnosis and they would now both accept a revised Extreme and Exceptional Extenuating Circumstances form for consideration.

She has to state in this appeal how this diagnosis relates to her capacity to submit/and or engage.

Any advice or guidance (yet again) would be greatly appreciated.

That’s great news, OP.

We aren’t at the university in question. Each place will give its own advice, and the most important thing is to follow that advice exactly. As very rough guidance, without seeing the advice from the university, my suggestions would be that the ADHD made it impossible for your DD to organise herself properly, to understand and follow university systems, to prioritise her work and complete her coursework on time, etc.

I hope others will be back. Best wishes

I havent anything useful to add, sorry, but just wanted to send best wishes to you and your daughter, what a dreadful situation for you both and great news that there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck.

Thanks very much for the quick replies.

We have now found the forms on the University site so will read through them all and speak to student services on Monday (hopefully).

HI OP, you daughter needs to clearly outline what her challenges are re ADHD and how it impacts her. I don’t want to guess her symptoms but if for example, she is finding it hard to pay attention to detail (due to her ADHD), this might have meant that she was not aware of what was a pass/fail re exam results.

I would also clearly include in the mitigation what she is intending to do, to help manage symptoms of ADHD. I work on a course, which involves training others to work with vulnerable populations. Whilst, adjustments can be made for ND individuals, it is also important that they are able to do the job (fitness to practice). Wishing you all the best 💐

i suppose, what is she appealing?

that she didn't know 45% was the pass rate for a resit? (is it different to the normal pass rate?)

or that having failed 3 times, she didn't respond to appeal the withdrawal in 10 days - assuming she actually had received the email but it would be fairly simple to log into her email and do a search for it to double check.

(its not clear what outcome is wanted - maybe to avoid 4th year fees as you should have been withdrawn before term started? or to resit that exam again)

If it were me writing the exceptional circumstances form it would go something like this.

————-

I have a history of dyslexia and during my time at university also developed very pronounced symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity, which worsened as my course progressed and became more intense during key periods of assessment such as exams. I had, and continue to have, difficulties relating to task organisation and following and carrying out instructions effectively. This is due to issues with my concentration and focus. I sought medical help and was referred for ADHD assessment but, during the intervening time, without a diagnosis, I received no disability support or accommodations specific to the ADHD to help me cope effectively with the severe symptoms, nor medical therapy or medication. I have now been diagnosed as of X date.

Unfortunately this lack of diagnosis and support has led to my being unable to complete one second year assessment successfully and to much confusion surrounding the assessment itself, the resit process, grades required and notification of results.

In my second year, in May 2022 I sat X exam and failed, with the resit taking place in December of 2022, this was also a failed attempt and so I sat a final attempt in May of 2023. The result was 41%, another fail, and this has led to me being withdrawn from my course on X date. I was entirely unaware this had occurred as I successfully completed third year and continued on to begin my fourth year placement and attend fourth year lectures as I was still on the register.

The problems that occurred due to my exacerbated symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity are three fold. Firstly, I did not fully comprehend the guidance for the assessment despite multiple attempts, <explain the difficulties and what was going on eg exam stress, other pressures making symptoms worse>. Secondly I did not did grasp that the required grade to pass was higher for resits <again explain>. Finally, the method of communication from university regarding exam results changed at the end of my third year, this further complicated matters as I was unaware of it so did not know to check the portal regarding whether or not I’d passed the year.

These instances of lapses in focus and concentration leading to lack of attainment, and difficulty handling administration tasks relate solely to ADHD symptoms which were untreated and severe at the time.

I would ask that I be reinstated in my course and be given another opportunity to retake the assessment under appropriate exam conditions for my disorder. And that information regarding the assessment process, grade requirements and notification of results and course progress be clearly conveyed.

————

You basically need to make the entire thing about ADHD, read around symptom profiles on nhs websites like here www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/symptoms/ and give exemplars of how symptoms showed up and caused problems directly at the points the 3 assessments occurred and when she was supposed to be focused keeping track of emails/notifications and so forth. What was going on, how severe were symptoms, do you have evidence of problems beyond the scope of this single assessment? For example did she need extensions for assignments or to resit other modules, were there other communication cock ups. Be specific about what the problems are.

Aside from symptom profiles, the other piece of documentation you can use to help form your exceptional circumstances is the university’s rules and regulations which should be freely available to peruse. Go through them like a fine tooth comb for anything they didn’t follow to the letter.

And seek advice from the students Union - whomever has the most experience with academic appeals. They will be on your side.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/symptoms/

https://adhdclinic.co.uk/adhd-at-work/#:~:text=It%20is%20often%20hard%20to,on%20to%20something%20more%20interesting.

Have a look at the second link especially, plenty to help you write about the issues.

Google “adhd symptoms” and “adhd problems at work”, millions of sites with info and detailing pretty much what your daughter has struggled with.

She has to state in this appeal how this diagnosis relates to her capacity to submit/and or engage.

The ADHD was undiagnosed and thus untreated, symptoms became worse with increasing academic pressure, particularly around exam and assessment hand in times.

• easily overwhelmed therefore it is difficult to keep on top of admin tasks.
• easily distracted therefore can start to engage and then not fully read or grasp all information.
• issues with memory leading to difficulty remembering commitments, instructions and so forth especially if given in a verbal format and not written down, leading to careless mistakes.
• exacerbation of pre-existing learning difficulties and comorbid mental health problems or development of them due to untreated adhd.
• lack of concentration leading to poor performance

That just for starters.

I think you’re going to win through on this, get your ducks in a row, you have a strong case.

Sounds like this lecturer has it in for her for some reason

Very peculiar

Unpopular opinion I am sure, but in the nicest way possible it is your daughter who has been asked to write it to keep her place, and her diagnosis that you claim affected her, not the people of Mumsnet who don't know her. She should be writing all of this herself if she really wants to stay in the programme.

The department, and the university, are following regulations. Good grief.

@ThickSkinnedSoWhat

Have you been through the fiasco of attending University as a disabled person and experienced the discrimination, lack of support and blatant attacks against you due to disability?

If you haven’t been through it, it is difficult to know what they are looking for in terms of evidence; particularly if you are newly diagnosed and not familiar with all the ins and outs of the condition and only coming to grips with it yourself.

It is amazing that her daughter has got through 3 years of a full time degree and placement without diagnosis and support.

OP I wish you all the best, ThickSkinned is right in that you do need to support your daughter to write her own account of her disability and what happened as a result of her symptoms.

However, I hope you can use the example I gave and the links as a skeleton framework for the level of detail required and the sort of factors she needs to be mentioning. Her story will of course be her own.

Won't she have to explain why all other exams were passed fine but not this one?

Ie what was different about this one?

All my exam marks I have been sent usually say 2 things -the mark and then a letter a was first, b 60, c 50-60,
Then f would be fail. It also would state what f was on sane page. Did her documents show this as if it did, you'll have to also say why this wasn't seen or understood? To avoid it being brought up later.

No she will have to explain how ADHD affects her, and summarise activities she struggles with and in what way.

OP ignore all the ableists. Contact the ADHD foundation UK for help & support. Use a Pp fab crib sheet. IF you can afford it get a solicitor involved.
A lot of Scottish universities what's called a 75% rule.
The situation with the strikes & marking ban could have had an effect. Check if some of her results were affected by this.
If your daughter is at Strathclyde uni, contact me by dm.
Do NOT leave her to do this alone. All this has happened due to her adhd.

My friend is a professor at an RG uni with a phd and on one module of her undergraduate degree she passed by skin of her teeth with much nashing of teeth & wailing. A struggle with one module does not incapable make!
Good luck