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Higher education

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Original poster

daughter been withdrawn from uni in fourth year

169 replies

imperialqueen · 03/10/2023 13:31

I would be so grateful for some advice on behalf of my daughter. She has started the fourth year of a social work degree last month and is on her final placement.

She contacted a lecturer today as she couldn't get into her honours folder on line. The lecturer told her she has been withdrawn from the course because she failed a 2nd year resit. She sat the exam in May 2022, resat it in December 2022 failed again, then resat in May 2023 and she said she thought she passed the May 2023 resit as she got 41%.

The lecturer who got back to her today just said a resit is 45% so she has failed for a 3rd time.

She is obviously quite upset and is saying she has emailed the lecturer back and the lecturer is not getting back to her. She is in her final palcement at the moment and isn't sure what to do.

She is quite distraught as this was a 2nd year exam and she has passed all of 3rd year (although not sure if she has all her 3rd year results back). and now in 4th year.

I am so upset too, a 3rd and 4th year saas fees have been wasted on the course. She is dyslexic and going through an adhd assessment (due to get final one next week).

She is adamant there is no phone number she can phone to speak to anyone to help her and let her know what to do. Whether just to leave the placement now or what. She says she doesn't have a personal tutor.

She has emailed the head of social work at the uni.

She has never missed a lecture or been late with an assignment or missed a day of 3rd year placement or 4th year. I know she has to be able to do the academic side too but I wondered if there is anything she can do now.

i didn't go to university and she is my first child to go. So I don't have anyone to ask for help.

Oh the head lecturer has just emailed back saying she failed the 3rd attempt and she had 10 days after they emailed her telling her she was withdrawn to appeal and that 10 days has elapsed.

She is saying she didn't receive the emails. I am thinking she didn't check.

Is there no hope now? So sorry for it being so long. I am so upset for her.

Life lesson I suppose for her.

OP posts:
Orange67 · 03/10/2023 19:55

LegendsBeyond · 03/10/2023 17:53

Maybe it isn’t the right path for her. Getting 41% at a third attempt indicates she’s really struggling.

In ONE exam. I had one module I repeatedly struggled with at uni, as it was heavily numbers based and I have a learning disability around numbers. I passed my course and I was brilliant.

Scampuss · 03/10/2023 19:55

LegendsBeyond · 03/10/2023 17:53

Maybe it isn’t the right path for her. Getting 41% at a third attempt indicates she’s really struggling.

Not necessarily.

Struggling with one element shouldn't be a reason to assume that. For example, my social science degree and masters had compulsory stats modules - it's quite possible to be an excellent social scientist whilst being crap at stats 🙋🏻‍♀️

FriendlyLaundryMonster · 03/10/2023 20:02

OP, good luck going forward. There was talk that Edinburgh Uni was doing away with personal tutors, I wonder if that’s where OP’s dd is.

Billsandfights · 03/10/2023 20:31

I’ve just passed my social work degree. It would be really poor of the uni to have sent your daughter on placement without a Personal Tutor. Learning Network West which organises the placements for students in central Scotland appointment Practice Educators to each student. They then get a link worker or workplace supervisor and a personal tutor. Personal tutor can be from the uni or be independent.

Also, I imagine it would be very unusual to have been allowed to progress to 4th year if your daughter had not passed a 2nd year exam. I say this as someone who had to put in a few mitigating circumstances forms. I had to pass all modules before I was allowed to progress to the next SCQF level. I carried over one 2nd year module into 3rd year but I had to pass it in the first semester before placement or I wouldn’t have been permitted to continue into the actual practical element of the course.

Something isn’t adding up here, OP. But I would be getting the numbers for the uni myself if your daughter is saying there isn’t one. All lecturers have direct lines, mines could be found on the uni website.

SarahAndQuack · 03/10/2023 21:53

mushroom3 · 03/10/2023 17:48

@SarahAndQuack I am just illustrating that it can happen as it happened with my DD. She has currently just started a placement year so I expect she will get one when she goes back to full time Uni next year,but she was definitely without a PS when her previous one left!

I do get where you're coming from - I'm just that, to me, a student saying they 'don't have' a personal tutor is a bit of a red flag. There ought to be guidelines to indicate who your DD (and the OP's DD) should go to for this kind of guidance.

Original poster
imperialqueen · 03/10/2023 23:20

thanks so much to everyone. I am sure all of this advice will be invaluable to us going forward. I am so grateful.

So, the original lecturer that told her today she had been withdrawn, contacted her again after 3pm to say she had spoken to her head of dept and they think even though she is out of time to put in an appeal she should still do so asap, and give her reasons as to why she is appealing.

Although not sure how this head of dept is different to the head of dept that told her she had failed and been withdrawn and there was nothing else that could be done as she had missed the appeal time frame.

Dd has filled the form in but I have told her not to send it until she has spoken to student services. Dd is keen to send as feels the lecturer told her to send it asap so she wants to do what she is told.

Billssndflights, she knows she has a personal tutor for her placements but she says this is not the same as having a personal tutor for the academic side. She said this is her personal tutor for placements only. So has she got this wrong? Would this person be her personal tutor for everything?

She has had no issues with the placements it is only this second year assignment (which was only 1000 words) so I am a bit annoyed at her failing that 3 times and not having the sense to ask to speak to a lecturer after the second failed attempt. She said it was an interdisciplinary module and taught by lecturers in nursing etc so it wasn't her own lecturers, (though I know she could have still spoken to her own lecturers),

I do not understand how they let her complete and pass 3rd year and now start her 4th year placement and attend her 4th year lectures (she said she was still on the register for these lectures) only to tell her she has failed 2nd year!

On her 3rd resit in May it stated she needed 45 per cent to pass, a few weeks later she saw her result on blackboard and thought she had passed cause it was 41 per cent and she thought 40 was a pass, she said she didn't take in the 45 per cent on the hand in assignment.

I told her all day to phone and actually speak to someone and she kept saying she couldn't as she didn't have phone numbers. At 5pm I googled the lecturers names and the uni and their phone numbers appeared, so obviously dd didn't want to speak to them and preferred to email! Although she was in shock and totally blind sided.

Hopefully she will get to speak to a few more people tomorrow.

I need to leave this to Dd to sort don't I? I would love to phone a lecturer too about this but feel they may not give me any info anyway due to dpa and they may think I should be leaving this to my daughter to sort. Which she has said she will.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 04/10/2023 07:45

OP,

This is a pretty good start. Given DD has been told to appeal ASAP she needs to do that. But what will she say? A diagnosis could be key to the success of an appeal. If she has a partial diagnosis now that is very important. Stating where she us in terms of further testing ……. It depends on the details.

I would be surprised if she lacked a PT for academic purposes during Y2 and perhaps since. Whether it is the same as her placement PT, I have no idea.

The uni and staff should not be liaising with you on this unless DD has given explicit permission. Even if she has, if you step in this may raise doubts about her capability. Best save that for a life and death emergency

pastypirate · 04/10/2023 08:13

Billsandfights · 03/10/2023 20:31

I’ve just passed my social work degree. It would be really poor of the uni to have sent your daughter on placement without a Personal Tutor. Learning Network West which organises the placements for students in central Scotland appointment Practice Educators to each student. They then get a link worker or workplace supervisor and a personal tutor. Personal tutor can be from the uni or be independent.

Also, I imagine it would be very unusual to have been allowed to progress to 4th year if your daughter had not passed a 2nd year exam. I say this as someone who had to put in a few mitigating circumstances forms. I had to pass all modules before I was allowed to progress to the next SCQF level. I carried over one 2nd year module into 3rd year but I had to pass it in the first semester before placement or I wouldn’t have been permitted to continue into the actual practical element of the course.

Something isn’t adding up here, OP. But I would be getting the numbers for the uni myself if your daughter is saying there isn’t one. All lecturers have direct lines, mines could be found on the uni website.

Edited

This is what I came on to post. I'm a practice educator now but in England. Back in 2009 when I graduated I had to pass all the modules before I could move up and I 100% had a practice learning tutor and I'm sure it's the same though I teach across step up open uni and undergrad so I get confused. We have 3 way meetings there's always a uni tiptoe present.

MyBrownEyedHandsomeBoy · 04/10/2023 08:27

OP does she have a skills coach she can approach?
The lack of communication doesn't sound good. Hope she managed to get something sorted

MyBrownEyedHandsomeBoy · 04/10/2023 08:27

Manages

Islandsadness · 04/10/2023 08:31

I do not understand how they let her complete and pass 3rd year and now start her 4th year placement and attend her 4th year lectures (she said she was still on the register for these lectures) only to tell her she has failed 2nd year!

Because she was resitting? What else could they have done, not let her progress to third year for over a year while she did resits?

Mischance · 04/10/2023 08:33

How can she be engaged in her fourth year placement if she was withdrawn at the end of the third year? This makes no sense.

Being chucked off a course is not something that should be conveyed by email and without person to person conversation.

Social work is a very challenging occupation - I know, this is what I did - and it is no place for someone who is seriously struggling to pass the course. I would be concerned that she has been left to incur high costs when it looks as though this might not be the right route for her. Students should have close supervision and advice at every stage. I know this is going to sound harsh, but she should be in a position to deal with this situation herself without your help - if she cannot then how is she going to cope dealing with the problems of her future clients/service users?

What a very difficult situation for her. She must be very fed up with this.

Cantdoitallperfectly · 04/10/2023 08:48

Hi OP, social work and nursing are very similar and I’m a practice supervisor for the latter students. She should definitely have a personal tutor, they’re vital in this line of training as often students are faced with traumatic events that they need to process and reflect and discuss. This is often done in group settings but can be done 1-1. I would look into this and check because she will need this person to advocate for her.
If she has not had the email regarding the appeal then she can probably appeal not getting the email (if you see what I mean!).
In my experience (I am based in Scotland) most universities will support students at this stage given that they’ve invested so much time and effort into the course. I would start thinking outside the box (think of people she could go back to ask for references and support statements for her to continue the course). Sometimes students are not particularly academic but really flourish in the practice area, have brilliant interpersonal skills and work really well with service users. These are the students that we need to support academically. Going into the university and having a face to face is much better than emailing. Best of luck for her

OlizraWiteomQua · 04/10/2023 08:49

I do hope that the appeal is successful and that your DD can continue her studies.

You're getting some excellent advice on this thread that I won't repeat. But just to add, if after all this process she isn't successful, then she shouldn't just walk away. There's two other paths to explore. One would be asking the university if they are able to make an award at a lower level than the original honours degree - e.g. an "ordinary" (ungraded and without honours) degree, or a diploma or advanced certificate which provides a scale of recognition for what she has achieved.

Alternatively, another university might accept the transcript of all the good things she has achieved so far as "credit" towards a more modular course and let her study enough modules with them in a single year to come out with a degree.

If the 2nd option might be attractive then your DD should make sure that the funding for her 4th year isn't being "spent" on a year she can't use, because then it will be available for her to use next year once this is resolved.

Mirabai · 04/10/2023 08:55

Islandsadness · 04/10/2023 08:31

I do not understand how they let her complete and pass 3rd year and now start her 4th year placement and attend her 4th year lectures (she said she was still on the register for these lectures) only to tell her she has failed 2nd year!

Because she was resitting? What else could they have done, not let her progress to third year for over a year while she did resits?

But she failed it back in May!

ChesapeakeBay · 04/10/2023 08:58

But she failed it back in May!

Yes which was after she'd finished 3rd, so how can we expect the uni to have stopped her doing 3rd year?!

4th I get obviously

mushroom3 · 04/10/2023 09:05

Reading above, it’s a 1000 word piece of coursework? It should be easier for her to redo this with some academic advice on where she has gone wrong than with a formal exam that falls within set exam periods. It sounds like she has passed all her exams and so is academically able to do the course.

Original poster
imperialqueen · 04/10/2023 09:11

Thanks everyone. She is going in now to see student services. I will persuade her to go to the social work dept and ask to speak to a lecturer.

I will also ask her to speak to the social worker who was her mentor in her 3rd year placement and ask her for a reference to give into the appeal process (might not make a difference but can't do any harm).

She really enjoyed her placement so here's hoping. Thanks again everyone. I really do appreciate the time you have all taken to reply with advice for her.

OP posts:
Cantdoitallperfectly · 04/10/2023 09:37

Fingers crossed 🤞

stillstillstill · 04/10/2023 09:37

hi, been there before. have a read thru of ALL the uni's documents re: academic rules and regulations (both those in force during her starting year and fhe ones these year as often a combination will apply - they will specify which applies where). look at the rules (eg condoned fails, double check the rules for calculating grades and kicking her out based on grades as sometimes they do get it ridiculously wrong), your appeal options, etc.

if appeal etc don't work out, look into an exit qualification like higher national cert or other, awarded by uni automatically for the years of modules she has taken. these can help her be more employable and also skip years if she goes back to uni in future.

uni didn't tell me any of these, not even that i could leave with a qualification (even if not a degree) rather than empty handed, so i recommend doing your own read thru of all the rules and regulations! every single appendix etc.

Mrsttcno1 · 04/10/2023 09:40

They will have allowed her to continue into third year etc while she did the resists. The problem is, as with most courses (certainly mine was), you HAVE to pass every module to actually be able to graduate. If she has failed all of the available resits, there’s no point her continuing on the course because she is not going to come away with a degree.

Even if an appeal is successful and they will allow another resit it’s worth thinking about if she’ll be able to pass that one? If she has failed 3, what will she actually do differently this time?

Molly54320 · 04/10/2023 09:42

I had a support tutor at uni in Scotland and my dyslexia is mild, so I think she should have had a support tutor. Mine helped me learn how to better organise myself - support in a way that prepped me for when I left uni and wouldn’t have the support. But I had her for the whole course and really benefited. Also extra time for assessments etc

stillstillstill · 04/10/2023 10:48

Mrsttcno1 · 04/10/2023 09:40

They will have allowed her to continue into third year etc while she did the resists. The problem is, as with most courses (certainly mine was), you HAVE to pass every module to actually be able to graduate. If she has failed all of the available resits, there’s no point her continuing on the course because she is not going to come away with a degree.

Even if an appeal is successful and they will allow another resit it’s worth thinking about if she’ll be able to pass that one? If she has failed 3, what will she actually do differently this time?

i mentioned compensated/condoned fails above - some unis (eg oxford, lse, imperial, kings) offer that. that's how i graduated (from one of the above so firsthand experience)! 41 is v borderline close to 45 so i'd look at the uni rules

Mirabai · 04/10/2023 10:53

ChesapeakeBay · 04/10/2023 08:58

But she failed it back in May!

Yes which was after she'd finished 3rd, so how can we expect the uni to have stopped her doing 3rd year?!

4th I get obviously

I don’t, my comment relates to her starting the 4th year.

bonzaitree · 04/10/2023 11:11

There may be the option for her to re-take the whole module she has failed again and sit the exam again. As in next year she would start the second year module, attend the classes again and take the exam again. She would probably have to pay for this- not sure though. She should make the suggestion that she does this again in her appeal.

Alternatively she could have her exam re-marked to see if she would get an extra few marks. Again this might cost.