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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

daughter been withdrawn from uni in fourth year

169 replies

imperialqueen · 03/10/2023 13:31

I would be so grateful for some advice on behalf of my daughter. She has started the fourth year of a social work degree last month and is on her final placement.

She contacted a lecturer today as she couldn't get into her honours folder on line. The lecturer told her she has been withdrawn from the course because she failed a 2nd year resit. She sat the exam in May 2022, resat it in December 2022 failed again, then resat in May 2023 and she said she thought she passed the May 2023 resit as she got 41%.

The lecturer who got back to her today just said a resit is 45% so she has failed for a 3rd time.

She is obviously quite upset and is saying she has emailed the lecturer back and the lecturer is not getting back to her. She is in her final palcement at the moment and isn't sure what to do.

She is quite distraught as this was a 2nd year exam and she has passed all of 3rd year (although not sure if she has all her 3rd year results back). and now in 4th year.

I am so upset too, a 3rd and 4th year saas fees have been wasted on the course. She is dyslexic and going through an adhd assessment (due to get final one next week).

She is adamant there is no phone number she can phone to speak to anyone to help her and let her know what to do. Whether just to leave the placement now or what. She says she doesn't have a personal tutor.

She has emailed the head of social work at the uni.

She has never missed a lecture or been late with an assignment or missed a day of 3rd year placement or 4th year. I know she has to be able to do the academic side too but I wondered if there is anything she can do now.

i didn't go to university and she is my first child to go. So I don't have anyone to ask for help.

Oh the head lecturer has just emailed back saying she failed the 3rd attempt and she had 10 days after they emailed her telling her she was withdrawn to appeal and that 10 days has elapsed.

She is saying she didn't receive the emails. I am thinking she didn't check.

Is there no hope now? So sorry for it being so long. I am so upset for her.

Life lesson I suppose for her.

OP posts:
BramblyHedge · 03/10/2023 13:42

She should have a personal tutor. That is bad. She could try students support services for support, maybe the academic registry and failing that her Student Union may be able to represent her interests. Basically try the professional service side of things rather than the faculty/ school.

INeedNewShoes · 03/10/2023 13:50

She should go to student support and request urgent help. I'd also make an appointment with the head of the department. If she has passed every 3rd year exam it seems extremely mean to withdraw her for the sake of 4% on the y2 resit exam.

itsmyp4rty · 03/10/2023 13:50

Could she appeal on the grounds of being neurodiverse with possible/probable ADHD which would explain her missing emails and so not realising the time had elapsed? It might be worth speaking to the disability support team or whatever well-being people there are at the university?

Original poster
imperialqueen · 03/10/2023 15:02

Thanks so much for the quick replies. I really appreciate them. She said she has double checked her emails and nothing at all about her being withdrawn from the course or about being able to appeal this decision.

So she went back and said to the head lecturer that she never received any email telling her she was withdrawn or could appeal it, and he hasn't come back and said oh we sent it on such and such a date. He just said she should contact student services.

She has contacted student services now and hoping she can go in and speak to them tomorrow.

OP posts:
ludocris · 03/10/2023 15:11

Is she checking her university email account? The emails are likely to have been automatically generated and sent there.

poetryandwine · 03/10/2023 15:15

OP,

I am an academic who has sat on Mitigating Circumstances panels. This is an emergency. You have nothing to lose and possibly much to gain from the collective experience of MumsNetters if you don’t mind sharing the name of the university. Your DD’s situation has been kept confidential by law so there is no risk of outing her.

I have never heard of an HE student in the UK who did not have a Personal Tutor, although the PT may be known as the Academic Advisor or some such label. Have you asked her about the role, or just the label? If DD has been unaware of anyone in the role, perhaps MNetters can confirm that her School really lacks PTs. Otherwise, DD has been badly disconnected for a long, long time and that is the root of her problems.

In the latter case I am afraid things are looking grim, although I would never say that an appeal is guaranteed to fail. If DD gets a late diagnosis, DD would have a moderate chance at my place on the grounds that this is the soonest evidence was available.

I agree with @itsmyp4rty that the Disability Support Office (whatever it may be called) is an excellent idea. Pronto. Though no guarantees, as this is really extreme.

If DD is able to stay in school, she will probably need help to finish this year. Her PT, if indeed she has one, can be an ally. The DSO an even bigger one. Best wishes to her.

Original poster
imperialqueen · 03/10/2023 15:25

Thanks poetryandwine - my daughter is at a university in Scotland, so not sure if that makes a difference in regards to her having a personal tutor.

Thanks for the advice, and for everyone's advice. Student services still haven't come back to her but she is going into them for 9am tomorrow. She has emailed her placement practice mentor to let him know she won't be in tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone.

OP posts:
MyEyesMyThighs · 03/10/2023 15:46

She will still have someone doing the role of PT, it should have their name on her student record.

If she manages to get one member on the teaching team on side, they will help her with the hoops she needs to jump through.

Was the module she failed a compulsory one? What was her feedback each time? Was she struggling more in lockdown than now?

poetryandwine · 03/10/2023 15:47

It doesn’t change anything, OP. I hope things go well tomorrow

HongKongGarden · 03/10/2023 15:55

Best of luck to her.

Please do advise her to try to stick to the facts and follow the process. She needs to find out which address they believe they sent the emails to, make sure they really weren’t sent, and needs to understand (and hopefully explain to you) if this is the culmination of something or genuinely a one-off mistake.

As others have said, there ought to be people other than a lecturer involved in her education who she needs to engage with.

PandaPacer · 03/10/2023 15:55

Hi OP,

In my job in Professional Services (in England) I can let you know the following that happens at my institution - I deal with about 50 appeals after withdrawal a year. Note this does not mean the same for your DS:

  • the email would likely have been auto-generated to her University account from the system. ALL students who have been withdrawn and are appealing claim to have not received it. We can evidence it from the system and it has never NOT gone out.
  • the main route into a successful appeal is mitigating circumstances not previously declared - ie, new evidence that the panel had not previously seen that might have affected your DS's performance. I suggest not submitting an appeal until her new diagnosis is confirmed in writing. In the appeal your daughter may request a further attempt at the assessment item in an attempt to pass.
  • Make sure you find out what aggregate is needed to pass both the module and the year concerned. I have seen some students appeal, get readmitted, redo the assessment etc and because of the cap on the subsequent attempts STILL don't reach the aggregate. Make sure this is not the situation here before you put any blood and sweat into appealing.
  • Keep in mind that there might be PSRB requirements at play that might limit the number of additional chances / interruptions she has
  • Some institutions have a cut off as for when students can successfully rejoin after a successful appeal. At my place it is the end of week 3 of sem 1. There is no way we could turn around an appeal submitted today in time for the panel to review and for re-admittance by the end of the next week - it is peak appeal season so it's likely too late, so the best she might be able to hope for is an interruption to studies and restart next Sep - be ready in your head for this.
  • There Student Finance cut of for fees is not for a few weeks in England - maybe different in Scotland?

Good luck to you.

PandaPacer · 03/10/2023 15:58

Oh, another thing: Advisers / module lecturers do not know the regs like PS staff do. Check with the right people! Every year we have students upset as their Adviser told them something that is actually not correct!

Head to the staff who know the Regs!

poetryandwine · 03/10/2023 16:27

@PandaPacer ’s advice is excellent, OP, even if some of the details may be different in Scotland or at your DD’s university. As an academic I can confirm that PS staff are the experts on the regulations!

SummerInSun · 03/10/2023 16:36

PandaPacer · 03/10/2023 15:55

Hi OP,

In my job in Professional Services (in England) I can let you know the following that happens at my institution - I deal with about 50 appeals after withdrawal a year. Note this does not mean the same for your DS:

  • the email would likely have been auto-generated to her University account from the system. ALL students who have been withdrawn and are appealing claim to have not received it. We can evidence it from the system and it has never NOT gone out.
  • the main route into a successful appeal is mitigating circumstances not previously declared - ie, new evidence that the panel had not previously seen that might have affected your DS's performance. I suggest not submitting an appeal until her new diagnosis is confirmed in writing. In the appeal your daughter may request a further attempt at the assessment item in an attempt to pass.
  • Make sure you find out what aggregate is needed to pass both the module and the year concerned. I have seen some students appeal, get readmitted, redo the assessment etc and because of the cap on the subsequent attempts STILL don't reach the aggregate. Make sure this is not the situation here before you put any blood and sweat into appealing.
  • Keep in mind that there might be PSRB requirements at play that might limit the number of additional chances / interruptions she has
  • Some institutions have a cut off as for when students can successfully rejoin after a successful appeal. At my place it is the end of week 3 of sem 1. There is no way we could turn around an appeal submitted today in time for the panel to review and for re-admittance by the end of the next week - it is peak appeal season so it's likely too late, so the best she might be able to hope for is an interruption to studies and restart next Sep - be ready in your head for this.
  • There Student Finance cut of for fees is not for a few weeks in England - maybe different in Scotland?

Good luck to you.

If large numbers of students are saying they never received an email sent by an automated system, seems far more likely that those emails are being automatically directed into spam as possible virus/scams etc than that all the students are either hapless or lying. Maybe time to check the system?!?

My DCs' school had this earlier this year - all parents who used Gmail found that all emails from the school's automatic system were being sent straight to spam. They corrected it, but only after a few days of annoyed teachers complaining about kids not knowing/brining things the school had emailed about and parents/kids saying they had never received the email.

Mrsttcno1 · 03/10/2023 17:04

The issue she may have and was certainly the case at my uni for my degree course, you have to pass every module to be able to actually graduate. If she’s failed it, and failed the resits, it’s pointless her continuing because she isn’t going to get a degree at the end of it.

PandaPacer · 03/10/2023 17:14

SummerInSun · 03/10/2023 16:36

If large numbers of students are saying they never received an email sent by an automated system, seems far more likely that those emails are being automatically directed into spam as possible virus/scams etc than that all the students are either hapless or lying. Maybe time to check the system?!?

My DCs' school had this earlier this year - all parents who used Gmail found that all emails from the school's automatic system were being sent straight to spam. They corrected it, but only after a few days of annoyed teachers complaining about kids not knowing/brining things the school had emailed about and parents/kids saying they had never received the email.

Show quote history

As part of investigation we get confirmation from IT that the message has been sent and also into what folder in the (university) email account it was delivered to.

SarahAndQuack · 03/10/2023 17:22

I am not raising this possibility to be mean (I hope very much it's not the situation), but is it at all possible your daughter has had a panic and told you something that isn't quite true?

It would be very unusual for her to have no personal tutor.

I've both taught a lot of undergrads, and been a personal tutor, and it's sometimes really hard for young adults to get the balance right between being independent, and talking to their parents. I slightly wonder if either your daughter has felt overwhelmed by her degree and wants to drop out, or there's been more built-up to her being withdrawn that she has admitted to you. It wouldn't be unusual for a student in either of those scenarios to claim that the university did something out of the blue. And it absolutely doesn't mean she's being deliberately dishonest - she may just be in a real panic and think 'well, I can't explain to mum now that I've been getting emails about this for months' or 'I can't bear to tell mum I just can't cope any more'.

I say this because, while I agree with others that it's the right time to take emergency action and support your DD to ask for help and explanations from any and every source she can, it's also worth having at the back of your mind how you're going to support her if it turns out there's more to it than first appears.

mushroom3 · 03/10/2023 17:42

My DD has been without a PS as her old one left mid-year last year and she hasn't got a new one, so it is possible. As others have suggested, she needs to contact disability/student services. The fact she was allowed to progress on to year 3 without passing the year 2 module is unusual at the summer resit is unusual.

SarahAndQuack · 03/10/2023 17:44

mushroom3 · 03/10/2023 17:42

My DD has been without a PS as her old one left mid-year last year and she hasn't got a new one, so it is possible. As others have suggested, she needs to contact disability/student services. The fact she was allowed to progress on to year 3 without passing the year 2 module is unusual at the summer resit is unusual.

Are you absolutely 100% sure she doesn't have anyone acting in that capacity? She may not have a permanent person who is taking on the role, but it would be really unlikely there's not someone who has taken that responsibility.

mushroom3 · 03/10/2023 17:48

@SarahAndQuack I am just illustrating that it can happen as it happened with my DD. She has currently just started a placement year so I expect she will get one when she goes back to full time Uni next year,but she was definitely without a PS when her previous one left!

LegendsBeyond · 03/10/2023 17:53

Maybe it isn’t the right path for her. Getting 41% at a third attempt indicates she’s really struggling.

Ddoglover · 03/10/2023 17:57

As well as contacting student services, tell her to get in touch with the Students Union (they will have a team for advocacy/advice) They tend to have good contacts across the university and can get things responded to quickly.

AreYouShittingMe · 03/10/2023 19:17

@PandaPacer's advice is spot on.
One thing to add, could the fact that your daughter has not been informed until now be grounds for an additional attempt? The University I work at has a process to grant a fourth attempt in special circumstances. Your daughter has been allowed to progress and proven she has been able to pass subsequent work, which hopefully will be taken into account.
Good luck

Oblomov23 · 03/10/2023 19:40

I'd chase everyone tomorrow with urgency, Head of course, Head of Dept, are you sure there is no tutor? PS. Don't give up. Email them all so there's a paper trail. Then phone.

MastieMum · 03/10/2023 19:49

I work in this field too and you've had excellent advice above. It's worth thinking about what dyslexia support was available to her, and if she accessed it. Sometimes students can show that the university didn't provide some aspect of support they should have. Has she had access to DSA and has she used the support? The other helpful thing can be to contact her Student Union because they'll also know the regulations inside out and can advise her what's best to do.