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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Applying with grades ‘in hand’

102 replies

buggybored · 17/09/2023 17:41

Does anyone have experience of DC applying to university post-A level? I’m curious as to whether offers tend to come through more quickly than when applying in year 13. And also whether DC should be applying to universities where grade requirements are equal to what they have ‘in hand’ or a bit lower? I suppose I’m just a bit confused as to whether, if for example they’re applying for a course which requires 3 x As, they will be judged more favourably because they actually have those grades already or more harshly against someone who is predicted A stars. Or maybe it varies depending on course/university…

OP posts:
RosyCheekBird · 20/09/2023 08:21

@Windseven that's awful. I'm glad your DC is happy now, though.

RosyCheekBird · 20/09/2023 08:44

Bristol is one of the ones my DC is going to reapply to...they missed their offer this year by 2 IB marks.
@poetryandwine was very helpful to me in previous threadsFlowers

poetryandwine · 20/09/2023 09:51

Feel free to tag me on a thread if you have any questions. Good luck with the applications.

Everyone wants the strongest cohort they can get, but a delayed rejection to a PQA is simply impolite (barring unusual issues with the applucation itself, of course). And it is counterproductive when the applicant has met the offer.

mondaytosunday · 20/09/2023 12:55

No excuse for keeping applicants waiting, but I'm not surprised at someone not getting an offer even with the required grades. Many students must have the grades (or better) - even if just predicted, and there must be other factors involved in the decision. I know a few kids who had above the grades required (albeit predicted) and were not offered places. Shame is they all did better than predicted in the end! One took a gap year but decided against reapplying as he felt no guarantees.

Windseven · 20/09/2023 15:02

mondaytosunday · 20/09/2023 12:55

No excuse for keeping applicants waiting, but I'm not surprised at someone not getting an offer even with the required grades. Many students must have the grades (or better) - even if just predicted, and there must be other factors involved in the decision. I know a few kids who had above the grades required (albeit predicted) and were not offered places. Shame is they all did better than predicted in the end! One took a gap year but decided against reapplying as he felt no guarantees.

It goes to the point made upthread about whether a predicted grade has the same value as an achieved grade though. In reality, as 75% of whatever the stat is don’t achieve predicted grades, you’d think admissions would put a greater weight on achieved grades.

Bigfatsquirrel · 20/09/2023 15:25

I agree @Windseven - but it seems that is not the case. I wonder if those predicted top grades are more likely to get them than those with lower predicted grades and therefore the c20% achieving predicted grades doesn't apply so much for unis like Bristol, Edinburgh, Durham, LSE, UCL etc ?? I suspect % overseas students also has an impact (we know how much those unis love the overseas £££) as well as the number of contextual offers given out. So this only really applies to home non contextual students

RampantIvy · 20/09/2023 17:15

but a delayed rejection to a PQA is simply impolite (barring unusual issues with the applucation itself, of course). And it is counterproductive when the applicant has met the offer.

I agree. Manchester University just sat on DD's application for some unknown reason, so not even top tier. She had visited for open days and decided that she wasn't fussed about going there, so she withdrew her application. She went on to get a first at another university. Manchester's loss.

mondaytosunday · 21/09/2023 11:54

Out of curiosity I put in our old post code (we moved for sixth form) to see if it counted for contextual offer - for the two unis I tried at random it did, one for one grade drop one for two. Do they just take that at face value? I had a detached house with pool and my daughter went to an independent school, though three doors down they were small terraces and the local state schools all 'require improvement'. It would be terrible if the post code was all they looked at.
@Bigfatsquirrel that would be an interesting statistic - are those predicted top grades more likely to get them? And it appears you are correct. In one study I read (could be more just looked at the one), predictions were more inaccurate the lower the prediction. If predicted B or above they were more accurate. You obviously can't over predict an A star, but those predicted it seemed more likely to achieve it than someone predicted a C. It is an average though - there will be plenty who don't achieve their A stars and plenty who do better than their predicted (lower) grade.
Why this is so requires another study!

Applying with grades ‘in hand’
WombatChocolate · 21/09/2023 17:23

I think it is quite simply, as you say, that those with an A star cannot get a higher prediction. Yes, lots who are predicted them do t get them, but all the very top students do get them and we’re predicted them.

Re why student wait so long for offers (or rejections) including those with offers in hand….I think it’s all about unis gradually getting more accurate info about who will actually be taking up a place, along with the fact they are running different lists for home students, contextual and foreign students.

They have an idea based on previous years of how many offers they need to make in each of these categories, to fill all their places, without ending up with too many students that they cannot accommodate (keen to avoid too many after difficulties of Covid and teacher grades resulting in this). There is the fair consideration deadline of the end of Jan, before which unis are meant to not make too many offers so that those applying a bit more later are not disadvantaged. Because this date exists, until it passes, unis cannot know if they have yet seen the best applicants they will get. So they have to wait until then. Perhaps they will make some offers to students in each of the home, contextual and foreign who have absolutely top grades (all A star) but some places also want to look at PS too. Until the end of Jan passes they aren’t in receipt of all the applicants (and even then some others might appear). After this, they can start making offers to each category of student and usually to the best first and then downwards. It they won’t make all their offers yet.

Then we get to the point where students start firming and insuring. Some unis try to push offer holders to choose the, by opening accommodation bookings early and before all unis have made offers. They aren’t mean to but some places do to attract people to take the bird in the hand and get accommodation, rather than risking a rejection elsewhere and having missed the best accommodation. At this point, as unis find they have been insured or rejected by students who hold offers, they are able to make further offers to their more marginal candidates in each category. Some years more will firm them and then they can’t make further offers and some of those more marginal students have to be rejected to avoid over offering. Other years they find more haven’t accepted or have only put them as insurance. They know roughly what percentage of insurance candidates will actually come, and on that basis can make more offers. It can almost be a certain number of rejections from students choosing other places to firm or insure, leads to a certain number of offers. Some places also find by delaying offers, some candidates might drop out and firm somewhere else to get accommodation. What the uni really wants is to know who are the best candidates that actually prefer them as a choice and will actually come. Until candidates firm and I sure, they do t know for sure how many might have an Oxbridge offer and prefer that…..that might mean a lot of good offer holders are no longer such likely arrivals.

The thing I think that complicates it, is the running of different lists and having to co-ordinate them. Foreign students bring more money…but often those who apply don’t actually come. Students with contextual offers are really wanted, but there’s the question of how many with lower offers should be taken and also the risk that sometimes those with lower predictions who only get one because they meet the lower contextual offer on application, might not achieve it. At that point, will the uni take them anyway with what could pretty low grades? Because if the different lists, someone predicted 3 A star from a private school might find they don’t get offers as that list is moving at a different rate and someone with one A star and 2 As might get offers from a state school contextual or foreign applicant. Unis probably know the likely firm/insure rejection rates from each of home, contextual and foreign students. They also know from each group what the likely achieving of the offer rates are too from firm and insurance candidates. All this needs to be factored in and only as it is, can decisions to make more offers, make rejections or hold candidates for more information be made. In the end it’s demand and supply. The only thing anyone can do is make themselves the best applicant they can be….the higher the predicted grades and GCSEs and better the PS, the more desirable a candidate should be within the home state, home private, contextual or foreign list they might find themselves. Those with grades in hand might well be kept waiting unless they are 3 A star, because others who are better might appear. And even within these lists and possible categorisations according to strength,there is probably an element of randomising of candidates. Perhaps they look at those with 2 A stars and take 10 to make offers to…but which 10? There will be an element if luck too at the levels where courses are vastly over subscribed with op notch candidates. Fortunately, most courses can’t be this choosy and for most courses, if you meet the standard offer in your PG, you’ll get an offer.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 21/09/2023 19:19

Maybe different up here as we are in Scotland but I’m curious as to how it will go for my son with 5 As at higher under his belt…

mondaytosunday · 21/09/2023 19:50

Well explained @WombatChocolate. Admissions must have a major headache - and no wonder the 'guaranteed accommodation' is hard to actually realise in a few cases.
With three A stars in hand I think my daughter can be fairly sure of getting some offers, but the big uncertainty is Cambridge. Their application requirements are so unique that it's impossible to guess.

FebuarySmith · 21/09/2023 20:27

Cripes. We had possibly unwisely thought having grades in hand would bring more confidence in application. Am now worrying that having a grade A blemish in an otherwise A star record is going to be an issue against lots of 3/4 A star predicteds. Especially coming from a private school.

4G5 · 21/09/2023 20:49

It would depend on which unis and which subject @FebuarySmith.

For instance, for humanities at Oxbridge, around 65-70% of students actually at the university achieved 'at least three a stars' in their A-levels. So, if you apply with three A stars in hand, this would place you into that 'top 70%' For STEM it's a higher proportion with all A stars.

At other unis, 3 A stars and an A might put them in the highest 20%. It really depends.

Don't worry too much about the 'private school' issue because they will look at her grades in the context of that particular school only. So if her grades were very strong in her school cohort, then that's how she'll be contextualised. Private schools vary a lot and they obviously know this!

Nobledeedsandhotbaths · 22/09/2023 03:18

Dd has a deferred place for somewhere she is reasonably happy with, but is tempted to reapply with grades in hand as she there are a couple of other unis she is now interested in that she didn't consider last year, and also one which gave her an offer but wouldn't agree to deferring. She would definitely reapply to the uni where she currently holds an offer, does anyone know whether they would be likely to give her an offer again or to reject her this time round? Slightly worried she may end up in a worse position through having a bit of a gamble!

poetryandwine · 22/09/2023 09:30

We would not hold the reapplication against your DD, @Nobledeedsandhotbaths . I would be surprised if others would, but no guarantees obviously.

Two ways trouble could arise: (1). The offer actually increases, and DD has not made the new offer. (2). The programme is or becomes very competitive, and offers are made in rank order with applicants having the highest PGs - perhaps well in excess of the offer - getting the first offers. If DDs’ achieved grades are at or near the offer, they may delay her decision off or reject her. Aside from its other problems I think this strategy mostly backfires, but many programmes begin each admissions cycle in an overly optimistic frame of mind.

The more competitive the degree programme the more likely the second scenario is, although some of the very best programmes are amongst the most responsive.

Nobledeedsandhotbaths · 22/09/2023 22:26

Thank you @poetryandwine that's really helpful, a few things to think about there.

curaçao · 22/09/2023 22:46

I think most popular courses will usually want to see the full field before they make offers.
I akso think yhe YEAR on which the qualifications were obtained needs to be taken into acvount.2020-2022 were inflated grades

curaçao · 22/09/2023 22:54

On the open day durham told us tgwy do not want to hear anything about extra currucukars which do not relate to the course ( tge exception is for primary ed)

londonmummy1966 · 23/09/2023 19:24

mrsconradfisher · 18/09/2023 19:52

Thank you that’s incredibly helpful. Yes his marks are shown with the grade, it’s slightly more complicated in that he actually got AAB but the B has been upgraded to an A after a PE review of marking (he got 6 extra marks) so his grades are shown on 2 separate documents but that’s easy enough to show.

Will wait to see what Psychology comes back as and then take it from there, is it better to contact them before or after applying on UCAS again?

He definitely won’t beg, but would definitely firm Loughborough if they offered a place. He’s worked so so hard to do this, including having no Psychology teacher for the whole of Year 13 so his grade has been achieved though his own sheer determination. He had a tutor once a week for a few months to help with exam technique but apart from that basically taught himself the entire Year 13 syllabus! So his nearly A star grade is even more impressive. Thanks once again.

DD had some problems with her A levels (health related) and applied grades in hand. SHe emailed admissions tutors to explain the situation and ask if they'd consider her. SHe also did an epq in the problem subject in the gap year to demonstrate interest and got 3 unconditional offers from unis that looked above her paygrade.

SHe did have some very supportive backup from school to reinforce that what she said was true. GIven the issues around no teacher I would recommend that your DS emails the course tutor at LB and explains the position and what he did to compensate - if nothing else it should show his ability to study with less direction which is what would be needed at uni and get someone from school to write something he can forward (plus an offer to corroborate independently if they want to follow up). If he can find something related to do in the year off that could help - eg Level 2 or 3 gym qualifications and work in a gym/lifeguarding.

mrsconradfisher · 23/09/2023 20:44

Thank you! We are still waiting for his Psychology remark, feels like it’s taking forever! I think once that comes back he will definitely email LB and see what they say. I did suggest an EPQ but I’m not sure he is up for that. He’s going to do a Sport Psychology course on line with Derby Uni (it’s like a pre degree level course), he’s got his Level 1/2 football coaching and he is also working full time. He’s also been offered the chance to go into his school and help the PE dept for a day a week which is a brilliant opportunity.
Im hopeful that he can weave all that into his PS somehow as well.

londonmummy1966 · 24/09/2023 11:51

I'm sure that an online course would be just as good an expression of interest - I'd suggest putting all of that into the email to the LB tutor so they know he's working hard at it but I suspect that a school backed explanation on the Psych would carry more weight.

sambamyty · 12/10/2023 19:31

Just out of interest, has anyone applied with grade in hands and heard back already ?

mondaytosunday · 13/10/2023 00:59

@sambamyty application only went in on Tuesday (Cambridge) and she added Bath and Durham on Wednesday (still searching for a fourth/fifth). I'm hoping Bath will get back to her quickly as her grades are well above course requirements - if it does she may not need a fourth or fifth choice. Durham may be a much longer wait! Will post as soon as!

RosyCheekedBird · 13/11/2023 11:48

Just giving life to this thread again and hoping there have been some offers.
We can't send the UCAS off yet as we have to wait for the results of resits (January) - really frustrating!!
I keep telling myself it won't make any difference and even though unis give out offers well before that, sending the application on January 2nd or 3rd is fine 🤞🤞🤞

mondaytosunday · 13/11/2023 12:48

@RosyCheekedBird no offers here yet. Bath doesn't seem to have sent any out but Durham have sent a few, mostly contextual though some not. She just added Glasgow over the weekend and I know they have sent out a few offers so maybe she'll hear from them first! I think hearing from at least one is a confidence boost so hope she does soon.