Applying with grades ‘in hand’

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Does anyone have experience of DC applying to university post-A level? I’m curious as to whether offers tend to come through more quickly than when applying in year 13. And also whether DC should be applying to universities where grade requirements are equal to what they have ‘in hand’ or a bit lower? I suppose I’m just a bit confused as to whether, if for example they’re applying for a course which requires 3 x As, they will be judged more favourably because they actually have those grades already or more harshly against someone who is predicted A stars. Or maybe it varies depending on course/university…

It's fair enough, actually, Andwhy -- some courses (e.g. economics, medicine, computer science) are massively oversubscribed so they can be filled by other students who also have all A-star grades.

If you don't mind me asking, can I ask where because I really didn't think that was the case (having private panic here now)

We think many of the ‘top’ economics courses are between 1 in 10 and 1 in 15 offer rates and there was talk of imperial having had 3k applicants for 75 places - not sure how many offers they gave for 75 places but even if 150 is just 5% offer rate. So odds are really tough for lse, ucl, imperial, Oxbridge, st a etc etc. haven’t looked at Warwick but assume similar.

DD thought of reapplying to Oxbridge once she had four A-stars but had a place at one of the notoriously late places mentioned and decided she couldn't face declining it and risking rejection second time around. It seemed highly unlikely she wouldn't get in with the results to prove herself but it would have just been too nerve-jangling. Basically, I think best to go for the grades in hand strategy by not applying in Y13, rather than rejecting a firm good offer for a so-called even better one post A-level unless it's for a course you are SURE offers lower than the grades you have.

This is really useful. DC's grades are not as stellar as some on here but good enough hopefully for a decent course/university.

So generally applying with the standard offer is a reasonable assumption?
And useful re the Maths comment (any ideas on how you evidence you are keeping that topped up, as it were?)

That's good to hear @poetryandwine - while Cambridge is DD's top choice (and the application process so time consuming it's hard not to get invested in it) Bath is her not too far behind second, and the course requires AAB. No contextuals apply for her, but fairly confident 😬. I think Exeter third.
I have heard that unis don't like gap years for maths/even/science, but she's interested in Sociology, though her current gap year course is not connected to her degree subject.
Her issue at the moment is the course at Cambridge (HSPS) initially includes Politics and her (ex) Head of Sixth wants her to put more about that in her PS, but it's not relevant to the other four courses, and isn't that what the additional Cambridge application is for? She's insisting on it though, so more reading and loss of precious characters!

@mondaytosunday I would have thought that’s what the additional C application is for!
But many unis do not put much store by the PS anyway.

I think some schools get so focussed on Oxbridge they can lose sight of the big picture.

@andwhy @notfeelingcreative see my post upthread about this. Friend's lad had A star AA (possibly another A as well) and got no offers from LSE, UCL, Imperial. Also no offer from Leeds. Mum was baffled but I tried to explain that those are the tiptop unis for that course (the London ones) and can take their pick.

U would expect with four x A star you should be OK for at least one of those three surely?

Some unis are far more focused on the PS as a form of selection than others. For LSE, most candidates (especially for Economics / other maths-heavy subjects) will have all A stars and do the PS is crucial. There will be info on the website and you really have to tailor it to their course. Be very specific! The PS is all LSE have to filter all A star candidates as no interviews and no admissions tests. The PS is a BIG deal for LSE. Loads of full A star candidates are left hanging until May every year. Some (like DD) never hear back at all which is ridiculous.

Cambridge have the SAQ so, if applying for say, Sociology at LSE, but HSPS at Cambridge, they can use the SAQ to talk about the Politics side of things and be much more specific about why they think the Cambridge course in particular suits their interests. Look at the modules and mention a few if possible.

Durham offer the opportunity to write a Durham-specific PS. This is because they have so many who also apply to Oxbridge, and they know Oxbridge don't want to hear about extra-curriculars / sports / hobbies etc on the PS (unless it's very relevant to the academic angle). But Durham (if I remember) recommend about 80/20 academic / EC for the PS. So basically they can rewrite the PS for Durham (submit this online once their application is acknowledged) and go on about how the ECs strengthen the application yadda yadda. They don't have to do this, but they can. Durham admissions are well known for being slow and cumbersome and come across as particularly disorganised, especially for large courses.

Bath have some quite unique courses so will allow an alternative PS in the same way - eg. if applying for Geography or Economics everywhere else, but International Development with Economics at Bath, they can write a second PS. Bath know their courses are a bit different and don't want people to be put off applying because of PS issues.

In our experience, Bristol we're very quick but sometimes what they do is put early applications 'on hold' - ie. they wait to compare with all other applications by the late Jan deadline.

UCL is a massive uni with so many courses and combos of courses and I think it's quite course-specific there as to who hears when.

That was our experience anyway from DD and friends.

My DD applied with grades in hand after hoping to study in the Netherlands but not being able to secure accommodation.

She achieved AAA and (A star EPQ). She applied at the start of December to LSE, UCL, KCL, York and Manchester for Geography. She got offers from all by mid Feb, with LSE being the last to offer (14th Feb). She went to LSE.

Thanks @poetryandwine

I get that the range of offers is for standard and contextual but one would hope that a student with an excellent PS plus 3 A’s in hand might be considered as well as a student who is sitting exams this year and who may not get that A star.

We haven’t had the Psychology review of marking back yet so I’m still quietly optimistic he’ll get the 2 marks to get an A star and this won’t even matter.

He also turned down a place at a RG (Birmingham) as he so desperately wants to do this particular course at this particular Uni, it’s Sports Science at Loughborough.

The even more frustrating thing is he almost qualifies for the contextual offer anyway, he apparently has 2 parts of it but not the third. School postcode and he is the first person in the family to go to Uni but our postcode is on a new build estate so don’t meet the criteria.

Im not sure what else he can do to get there tbh, I know Loughborough do a realising opportunities programme but it’s only for schools in Leicester apparently.

Hi, @mrsconradfisher

I join your hopes that 2 marks will be found on the Psychology exam and the problem will solve itself.

My School is quite competitive and we offer one dropped grade with the two WP flags your DS has. But L’borough Sports Science is one of the most competitive programmes in the UK. They can fill up easily with applicants who make the written offer. I recall a number of stories on this Board related by parents of DC who have been cut no slack.

If the marks aren’t found it would be fine for your DS to contact the admissions team. Is his Psychology mark shown with his grade? (Some exam boards do this.). In any case he should write briefly, cogently and very politely, mentioning how many marks off he is after the re-mark and his WP flags. Also that he would immediately Firm L. He doesn’t need to be fulsome, they know how desirable they are. Begging is counterproductive. He should just ask whether it is worth applying, and base his decision on the answer. (The answer will under no circs constitute a guarantee of admission, but I expect it to be given in good faith) Best wishes to him

Thank you that’s incredibly helpful. Yes his marks are shown with the grade, it’s slightly more complicated in that he actually got AAB but the B has been upgraded to an A after a PE review of marking (he got 6 extra marks) so his grades are shown on 2 separate documents but that’s easy enough to show.

Will wait to see what Psychology comes back as and then take it from there, is it better to contact them before or after applying on UCAS again?

He definitely won’t beg, but would definitely firm Loughborough if they offered a place. He’s worked so so hard to do this, including having no Psychology teacher for the whole of Year 13 so his grade has been achieved though his own sheer determination. He had a tutor once a week for a few months to help with exam technique but apart from that basically taught himself the entire Year 13 syllabus! So his nearly A star grade is even more impressive. Thanks once again.

Exactly @Cascais6! Thing is with the HSPS course they are expected to focus from Y2 on the parts that interest them - she's not in to politics other than within sociology context, so she wouldn't really write anything more about it in her SAQ anyway. Cambridge says they do not expect candidates to have knowledge of each aspect of the course.
The 4000 character count is so tight - she is at pains to see where she can cut to add politics in! Also as she is not that well read up about it she has now ordered two books (one from the Cambridge course reading list) to bone up - and she will basically have just this week to read both (and it's not like she isn't already doing a course).
The PS is a good exercise in precision for sure!

Grades in hand reapplication here. Declining a very competitive firm offer as well. DC has never got past being pooled but not picked for Oxbridge earlier this year. I swing between understanding chasing dreams and thinking a bird in the hand etc.

@mrsconradfisher it’s fine that the grades are on two documents. DS doesn’t need to show the documents in outlining his situation to the admissions team but (if he doesn’t get the A star) he could mention ‘my grades are A A A with the A in Psychology 2 marks off A star. Furthermore my school can confirm that we had no teacher for Psychology during the whole of Year 13; and for what it’s worth I have two of three contextual flags (school postcode and first generation university). ‘. In his own words, of course. Then the willingness to Firm immediately, etc.

I would do this before applying, because I would take a discouraging response seriously. L’borough SS will not be going into waiting lists to fill their places. Also it shows a greater value for the opinion if the person you ask.

However if DS does not get a reply I wouldn’t assign any meaning at all to that. In his shoes I would go ahead and apply. UCAS will show his contextual flags. It could only help if the referee would mention the self taught aspect of Y13 Psychology, which is bloody impressive. DS might work it into his PS. Just make sure not to criticise the school.
(You haven’t here). ‘I’m good at independent and small group learning. In Y13, we rose to the challenge of learning A level Psychology without a teacher by …….’
I will be rooting for him.

Once again thank you so much. His head of 6th form is amazing and has been so supportive with the reviews of marking. He will be doing the reference so I will make sure that he mentions the lack of teacher if we need to.

Got everything crossed that Psychology comes back with these 2 extra marks…it’s crazy that 2 marks is all that’s stopping him getting there!

Great posts and excellent advice as ever from @poetryandwine

Best of luck to your DS @mrsconradfisher !

Well my DC's form was sent off and he had an offer from first choice the following morning.

We heard earlier about accommodation too (didn't stop the finance form going in late!).

My DD applied with grades in hand. From her experience and the communication with others who had done the same, I would suggest 3 places at the level of actual results and 2 aspirational, eg one grade above actually achieved, as they may take you with grades in hand!

Any advice, please, for writing a PS when applying with grades in hand? Many of my DC's gap year plans won't be until after their UCAS application goes off. I was told that you should not put anything in the PS that you haven't done yet (as of course it could all be BS!!).

@RosyCheekBird I don't think my daughter's PS is any different having grades in hand. She hasn't mentioned what she's doing currently (it's not relevant to the subject). If an applicant does - because it is relevant - they can't yet say what they learned and how they benefitted yet, so I'd keep anything about it short.

@mondaytosunday thank you!!

Just a warning about what happened to DSs friend last year. Wanted Bristol - offer was A star AA and he got AAA. Rejected.

Decided to take gap year and apply to different course at Bristol with entry requirements AAA as so wanted to go there. Got rejection late - May time? Ended up somewhere great but v fed up at time having taken a year out so could go to Bristol.

That’s terrible, @Windseven

But it’s good for everyone to know that this can happen, and which places will put off decisions on PQAs (inexcusably, in my view).