Unis sugarcoating problems with year abroad at open days

[Marthamalteser]

i accompanied my granddaughter to a top uni today and sat at the back while she attended the subject talk. The degree includes a year abroad and although multiple parents said they had heard getting visas was very difficult post-Brexit, the lecturer tried to brush this under the carpet. They also refused to be transparent about year abroad funding - a young person asked if Turing funding would be means tested (unlike Erasmus) and they said it was all still in flux. Yet we know that this uni last year only awarded Turing to disadvantaged students (not ‘squeezed middle’ students like my granddaughter). They were also very vague about what help they gave to students to secure a study or work placement. My granddaughter says that they don’t seem to give much. To me this is a red flag or am I wrong? Which unis are good for year abroad help and are distributing Turing funding?

@TizerorFizz My DS can’t study a language at A level because his college doesn’t offer it. They don’t offer it because of budget issues. That is the norm.

I wasn’t speaking specifically of you,@TizerorFizz Happy to admit that academics as a class are amongst the sharpest at providing a running start for DC in the academic game.

But opportunities for FM, MFL, fine arts, grammar school, even good comprehensives - yes, as far as I can tell all of this is in fact class linked. (Of course there are a few exceptions).

Right now I think it is difficult for many to believe that things can get better, that they can improve their lot in life with hard work. And sadly that’s understandable, because much in the system does conspire to keep poor people down.

You seem to have confidence that work will pay off and I’ll wager you transmitted that to your DC. I know your DH built a successful firm and great credit to him, but that’s been a great piece of luck for your DC. They should absolutely enjoy it! But I know from my own background that it gives you an ease in the world not shared by those who could conceivably face bankruptcy. (I haven’t relied on my parents since uni, but I and then we have always known they would be there in an emergency) This reverberates in countless ways.

I can almost classify my personal tutees socioeconomically by their sense of optimism. That’s just wrong.

My DS was told that the year abroad offered for his course didn’t count for any credits towards his Masters and final year would be worth double. He’s opted not to go because it puts too much pressure on final year. Instead he’s opted to do course related travelling in his holidays.

@poetryandwine We came from very humble stock! Workhouse and bankruptcy! Yes. DH was successful but that didn’t extend to MFLs! It is engineering! Neither DDs got those genes! Neither did he make time to help them with homework. It’s just how it was. They had to do it themselves. I have no O level in a science, maths or MFL.

I think DC need to work at MFLs to do well. I do believe my DD found MFLs a natural subject to learn. Others find other subjects easier. Look at all those A stars in FM we hear about! I think it’s a talent as well as the hard graft of learning the language but that’s the same for music, maths and art.

@LaaDeeDa321 I am not sure what the issue is. Are you looking for A level German? I see DC has a gcse in it. Has he been unable to take it at A level? If so I’m very cross for DC as this shouldn’t happen. Maybe look at another school but how does this tie in with a year abroad at uni? I’m confused.

Most unis prioritise Turing funding to those students who are studying mfl or for whom it is directly relevant as part of degree, to increase opportunities for those disadvantaged economically or socially etc. It may not cover full costs or be available in advance (when you need to pay for visas , travel, accommodation and so on). dd eventually got her funding in two tranches, the last of which was received after she had returned.

@TizerorFizz I am not surprised to hear of the humble background and again all credit to both of you for working your way up! My parents did the same - DF like your DH is an engineer and I believe we have discussed the higher prestige accorded the profession on the Continent elsewhere.

I’ve not suggested you were able to coach your DC in MFL or similar. I have suggested you were able to imbue them with confidence partly because you and DH figured out how to make the world work for you. Confidence enables everyone, but especially young people, to work hard. My hypothesis about your family, indeed any family with happy, hardworking DC, is the opposite of criticism.

I agree our pupils and students need to find their gifts. Not everyone has the talent for MFL (my DH who achieved an excellent Maths professorship quite young barely passed his MFL O Level) or FM or Music or whatever. But if you do have the talent, you still need the access, the confidence and in some cases the financial means to develop your gift. That’s harder to come by than it used to be.

This

My dd wanted to work in Spain post her degree but could not do so as she doesn’t have an EU passport.

I’m not sure it is harder now (not from my experience anyway). Confidence wasn’t achieved in my house or at school as a child or young person. Mostly being described as “a disappointment” was and my dad saying he didn’t want me at school any longer. It was a relief to go snd earn money and get away.

Many of us at our grammar school were told we wouldn’t amount to much. The head described us as “drones”. Now, few are told they won’t achieve anything and, as we discussed recently, 40-50% go to uni. 10% at best when I was 18. Not that I was close to being in the 10%!! Schools have given millions confidence to have a go. I had to give permission to myself to have a go. No one else cared a jot. One thing I am certain about, that attitude was not acceptable for my DDs. So I do understand Dc who have to get past parents but I also know the schools can and will help and not write Dc off.

However if Dc has an 8 in German at gcse, does no college or school offer the A level? If it’s not available anywhere why teach it to gcse? It seems very odd and wrong.

Not easy. My daughter did a MFL and European Law and Business Degree at a RG Uni. Started the degree pre Brexit. After graduation, all EU jobs were only available to EU residents. She was excluded from applying. At least she had an Erasmus year abroad. Damn Brexit!

Hi,@TizerorFizz That sound brutal, but figuring out how to give yourself the confidence was the key, IMO. Where do you think that came from? DF had a mum who transmitted that ability to each if her DC. I think schools will do their best but they are so stretched that it isn’t always enough. I agree there is too much empty praise. I think it creates a disconnect rather than true confidence.

Sadly what I take from @LaaDeeDa321 and others as well as local knowledge is that indeed A Level German and some other MFL are becoming unavailable. There was even a recent thread about AL Mandarin being discontinued after Y12. DC are well and truly screwed.

@AugustSippedAwayLikeABottleofWine and @bevelino DC can work on the Continent the same way nonEuropeans always have, by getting a firm job offer first. Then a worker’s visa is issued. Postdocs do it all the time. In a few countries like Germany there is also a 6 mo Job Seeker’s visa. It’s sad that the option of spontaneous work is gone but that’s just turnabout.

DC can work on the Continent the same way nonEuropeans always have, by getting a firm job offer first. Then a worker’s visa is issued. Postdocs do it all the time. In a few countries like Germany there is also a 6 mo Job Seeker’s visa. It’s sad that the option of spontaneous work is gone but that’s just turnabout.

technically yes, in practice it’s not that easy. Though this may depend on the country. Italy say there needs to be something so special about the person that it means the company has to employ them specifically and not an Italian /EU candidate. Bit hard when you’re a 21yo graduate!

@TizerorFizz i’ve said it as plainly as I possibly can. DS’s sixth form doesn’t offer German. I’m not sure how you are struggling to comprehend this. He can’t look elsewhere. We’re not tripping over ourselves in this part of the world for A level provision indeed the borough next to us offers no A levels whatsoever.

Where offers NO A levels? Really? Are you in the Highldnds? I think you might need to look again. Yes. I see the issue but I would look more widely. What does the school think? As it’s September has DC dropped German?

By the way, DDs former boyfriend did gcse French and no A level as he did sciences. He took up French at uni and went abroad for year three to France. This would be an option. It takes hard work at the uni to catch up but it’s possible.

Slightly off-topic (although not really) - Brexit means that we UK citizens are subject to the same visa and work rules as the rest of the world. And the same sort of rules we apply to those non-EU citizens seeking work in the UK.

I had to help one of my non-Eu/UK postdocs through this process. They were coming from another English-speaking country, had no “irregularities” of citizenship there, were coming in to the UK on a very prestigious and competitive postdoc programme, but it still took almost a year from start of application to arrival.

I think the shock and surprise expressed on this thread is because we took freedom of movement for granted. And yet stopping freedom of movement was one of the central planks of the Leave campaign.

As Joni Mitchell sang, “You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone”

@TizerorFizz not in the Highlands. Nowhere near (somewhere in England) and this is not the only LEA to do this. You need to open your eyes to what’s happening beyond your own back yard.

@LaaDeeDa321 Thst whole Boroughs don’t offer A levels in any schools? Yes. You are right. I didn’t know anywhere was like this. Thankfully I’m never going to live in such a place. Maybe you should not either as Dc deserves better.

Do you really think we can all up sticks @TizerorFizz and move? That’s a very strange attitude reminiscent of the ‘undeserving poor’ rhetoric of the past (we are not poor by the way). Bumping into right-wing people on here is the worst thing about mumsnet.

And once again if you read my posts instead of just seeing what you want to see (there is a pattern to your responses @TizerorFizz ) you will see we don’t actually live in this borough. We live nearby. So don’t start all the ‘you aren’t doing the best for your child’ rubbish because that’ a million miles from the truth.

Oh my! We don’t all have the luxury of choosing where we live!

Or moving at a drop of a hat! Ridiculous!!

Is there anyway your DS could do German independently OP?

No @Littlemissprosecco They are doing 3 A levels and an EPQ. We went into this with full knowledge of there being no German A level offered and we accepted it. We are very lucky in all honesty. This thread is once again illuminating how some people live with their heads in the sand and believe that unfairness doesn’t exist because they don’t experience it themselves. I mentor a young person and I do what I can to help her but some young people are navigating their education with their hands tied behind their backs. Mumsnetters with privileged dc don’t want to see this because it lessens their DC’s achievements so they choose to belittle and disbelieve other people’s experiences. Quite mad.

I totally agree that there are many on here who only have their own agendas!
However, if he really loves and finds he misses the German, there’s no reason why it can’t be at least part of a modular degree/ course in his future. Good luck.
Sounds like he’ll be fine

If you mean me. I don’t have an agenda. Other than I do want Dc to access MFL. However blaming everyone else’s DC and alleging unfairness is not acceptable. You do have to sort things out for your own Dc. If other dc in an area do not value MFL, how is that my fault or my agenda? I personally think people who voted for Brexit and do not value MFLs are utter idiots. You see that attitude on MN all the time. It’s a great disservice to everyone.

Believe it or not parents do move for education. If NO A levels are available, as alleged, surely you move? It appears this is not wholly the case, just the wrong ones. I would be unhappy too but schools reflect demand and DC ability. They are not going to run an A level course for three when CS has DC queuing up. It’s where we are as a nation. Failing to understand or engage with our neighbours is our default position and many have engaged with that narrative. I’d love to know where this problem area is.

There is no solution for this DC it would appear. German is dropped for now. I’ve advised how it can be picked up again at uni (a decent one) so I will leave it there. A keen DS would do this route. So hopefully this Dc will.

Very much on point, @FarEast