Thoughts on these A levels

[Slippersandshakes]

DD wants to do computer science, drama and RE at A level.

Got mainly grade 9s at GCSE so capable academically.
Will absolutely not consider taking maths and doesn’t want to do a comp sci degree so not worried about the fact maths is a requirement for that.

Would like to do some form of communication, programming, philosophy, ish type degree but not at all sure yet.

Would English be considered a more robust choice than drama? Would that help keep the doors open for certain unis?

Would appreciate thoughts as school not helping.

Just had a look at Warwick (highly ranked). For Philosophy you need AAA with no preferred subjects.

I think there’s a big difference between a uni considering A levels and finding out what proportion have the combination the DD is proposing. That’s an entirely different landscape at elite unis. For other less competitive unis, I don’t think it matters. It’s pretty clear that these unis prefer certain subjects if you analyse who gets in. The Trinity advice holds good and would get DD offers.

I cannot see what advantage chemistry gives without maths. Sciences are greatly supported by maths (except biology). It’s randomly picking subjects. For anthropology and philosophy, history is a great subject to offer. Then select another two. RE and CS or RE and Drama. It really is not that difficult. Saying students with a group of three companion subjects is the same as offering maths or history for very competitive courses is not great advice. Even in 2023!

Minded to drop Drama and take Chemistry?

🤦‍♀️gently, this kid doesn’t know who she is yet and that’s ok but you need to make this easier for her.

By which I mean cut out the noise, cut out the endless scouring of university websites and discussions with other people. Give her a day or two doing something completely different and then talk to her about what she actually enjoys, which classrooms does she want to be spending time in? What does she think will make her happy, interested and keen to study?

Yes, I’d be inclined to think someone considering dropping Drama for Chemistry is someone being told what she ought to study, rather than what she’d like to study.

If she’s considering Philosophy, R/S is THE subject to take. Most schools opt for a Philosophy of Religion unit, so it’ll allow her to see if she likes the subject. Yes, it has a very high pass rate, but that’s largely because the kids taking it all want to do it as an A level rather than it being a requirement.

Top subjects studied for Anthropology and Philosophy. The main thing to notice is maths and history appear on both lists.

Yes, but to assess that properly we'd also need to know proportions of students overall taking these subjects. Maths, history, biology and English lit are among the most common subjects taken at A level, aren't they? It's the Classical Languages which is the really remarkable subject on those charts.

Also given the number of students overall who take maths I wouldn’t say that is a particularly high proportion for anthropology.

A 10 A* GCSE student is unlikely to get C/D at A level, unless something goes wrong, so that’s hardly relevant. Most good schools advise precisely not to take a subject that you don’t like because you think you ought, or that you are not very good at, that’s just basic.

We’re talking about a student who could well get 2 or 3 A stars at A level. The question is what should she get her A stars in.

Subject choice is not all about uni requirements, it’s also about a good foundational subject base at A level that will support your intellectual interests going forward and support a wide range of both different degree choices and careers - to keep all options open.

@AppleKatie I would not expect it for Anthropology but none the less, 50.% have it.

What is interesting is that RE is not in the top 5 for either. So numbers don’t stack up for it against the subjects listed which are (nearly) all the oft rubbished Trinity subjects. Neither uni subject will have huge numbers doing it either. Many will be choosing these degrees as they often require lower grades than, say, History. Arch and Anth is a well known route into an elite uni if you are playing the odds.

It's not surprising that lots have maths and few have done RS, because of the disparity in the overall popularity of these subjects. I don't have the stats but in another thread there's a table of the 15 most popular A levels - RE isn't in it, maths is the commonest. Any course which doesn't have specific requirements is very likely to be dominated by the overall most popular subjects. If a subject which not many take at A level shows up in a chart, that's the oddity.

i agree classical languages is odd but RE is surprisingly not there for philosophy. In my view. Surely more Dc take that than Latin or Greek?

A lot of schools don’t offer RE. My son’s school didn’t offer it for GCSE & my daughter’s school she had to self study with a weekly tutorial from the GCSE teacher who was mentored by an A level teacher at a nearby school.

but a nearby private school offered RE as a gcse option instead of a humanity.

Thinking about it more, this is really tricky.
It is made trickier by CS in there (a given subject), and not Maths.

I can't find who said it previously but I think the possible stumbling block will not be that the combo is uncommon per se, but because of the un-relatedness (for want of a better word) of the subjects.

Going to praise Bath for being open and transparent on their subject pages (would be good if others were the same).
They talk about criteria that affect entry. Link
E.g. GCSE performance, and 'the combination of subjects you study at A level (or equivalent)'.
The link above is Psychology (as they don't appear to offer the ones OP is talking about), but illustrates in this case the need for a numerical subject and an essay subject. Obv this requirement may be in a minority. A lot will need (only) a science or English or History, say.

So, without asking loads of Unis what they favour (when no explicit subjects are required), do DC favour the relatedness (of at least 2 of the subjects), or picking one numerical/science and one essay (each prob of the more traditional subjects) to keep options open (but poss at the detriment of relatedness).

So as CS is a given (and not Maths) - History, RS, CS, or Physics, Chem, CS, or Eng, Drama, CS.

I find it surprising that a lot of schools don't offer RE GCSE as religious education is still a mandatory part of the curriculum. It's not that long ago that RE was a compulsory GCSE at many schools.

I agree it's probably not that popular if offered as a GCSE option. In DD's year only 10% took RE GCSE and the vast majority of those were students who actively practiced a religion (but a range of religions).
I think it's a bit of a shame that Philosophy is not offered more widely as I think that might appeal to more.

At both ds and dd's schools the compulsory RE was incorporated into PHSE and delivered by the form tutor (ds's school had drop down days, dd's school 1 hour per week PHSE.)

Dd is an atheist but RE was her favourite GCSE and A level subject.

It depends entirely on what she wants to do. If she wants to do medicine then they are terrible subjects, but the creative/ethics/computing mix would be a great combination for something like Interactional Design (UX design) which has great job opportunities. She could also go into a range of social science/humanities areas such as politics, international relations, psychology, business management, law…etc. Different unis have different requirements so it would be worth checking out her preferred institutions, but at A level I would encourage her to do the subjects she loves the most as they’re the ones she’s most likely to stick at.

There are some bizarre attitudes towards computer science A-level on here. Are people confusing it with ICT? Computer science is most definitely considered a strongly academic A-level. Yes, it is less favoured for many STEM degrees if not done alongside maths, as are physics and any other science subject without maths if you then decide you want to do a STEM subject at university. However, as a free standing subject, rather than a route to a computer science or other STEM degree, it has plenty to recommend it, as do the dd’s other two choices. For any degree which does not specify any subjects as absolutely essential, I suspect admissions tutors would be far more flexible and seriously interested when receiving an application from an all-9s GCSE and all-A*s-in-unusual-A-level-combination subjects student than most of the posters on this thread.

@Walkaround You are assuming that many unis look at GCSEs. Some do, and say so, but many don’t. If you want a uni that does look at GCSEs, it’s possibly a competitive course. Therefore not looking at the best combinations for the course could put you at a disadvantage. Maybe a slight one but by saying all combinations are equal is not really correct when you start looking at success rates and subjects studied.

Do you really think someone with (very likely) high A level predictions in an unusual but acceptable combination of subjects will be at a disadvantage on an uncompetitive course?
(And again... 'success rates' mean little without being adjusted for numbers taking those subjects. )

No. Not on an uncompetitive course. That’s not what I said.

If you look at courses that weight GCSEs, why do they do this? It’s to get a broader picture of the applicant. So this allows a greater level of filtering. Its often the case that these courses list preferred A levels too. They might even tell you what successful applicants offered. You can take what combination you want but saying this combination is great for any course where there’s “free choice” is misleading.

It’s not necessary for recruiting courses to go into this level of detail and just A level results are good enough.

@TizerorFizz - I disagree that the “more competitive” universities would turn their noses up at computer science! They certainly don’t when it comes to students who actually apply to study computer science, in fact several Cambridge colleges specify it as a good A-level to have for the degree, as they think it is useful preparation alongside the essential maths. Also, it’s not as if the most competitive universities don’t have their own written assessments and interviews and observations of school essays to help work out who has the most potential or anything…

Yes, if playing it safe and sufficiently interested in the subject, something like history or English literature would be safer than drama - or a MFL, and definitely maths, but computer science will really not be viewed as a mistake in any way for any subject, imvho (although the decision not to do maths with it might well cause a certain amount of interest).

Also, I do think an A* in drama is better than an A or B in English - but an A in English literature is better than an A in drama for the sorts of subjects the dd has expressed an interest in.

@Walkaround We don’t know what the DD would get in English though do we? Or there’s an A star in Drama just waiting for her? So it’s conjecture. I am also not saying CS is a mistake. You say alongside maths for Cambridge! She’s not doing maths. So I think what I’ve said is correct in terms of competitive unis. These feel like isolated subjects. Great as second or third, but together a pick and mix.

Tizer has a/the point. The context here is CS looks a bit odd in the combo mentioned.
However, even that is a moot point as CS is a given, in fact the given, and without Maths.
OP is taking the small punt that CS is not ok as a science if the degree requires one (and it's the only science taken). But, Philosophy and Communication prob don't need one (Obv, CS is required for Programming (in this context/combo)). CS is ok for Psychology (requires a science) at Bristol, as an example.

So then the question is what to choose with CS.

I did maths with arts subjects, and plenty of people do a random science with arts subjects but without maths, so I disagree that computer science with two very different subjects is an undesirable choice in any way whatsoever, if the person concerned has both aptitude and interest in all the subjects concerned and therefore does well in all of them. This variety is only a mistake if the candidate does not realise how much maths may be involved in their science A-level and struggles to keep up in a class where everyone else, or nearly everyone else, is doing maths A-level with it. As for RS and drama, they are not generally considered an odd combination.

Unless applying for a STEM degree, there is therefore nothing whatsoever wrong with having a proven interest in maths or in a science without taking other sciences or maths with it - the failing is with the A-level system for being far too narrow, not with the student, as any university worth its salt when considering an applicant for a degree that does not require specific A-levels should recognise. Any employer would also be delighted to see an applicant with coding skills and an ability to think logically.

The issues, therefore, boil down to whether or not there is a degree of snobbery towards drama A-level, and whether the dd actually understands how much maths will be involved in computer science A-level. If she is rejecting maths A-level because she hates maths, she is making a mistake taking computer science. If it is because she knows maths will be involved in computer science A-level and is happy about that, but doesn’t feel the need, for her purposes, to do more maths on top of that, because this will then limit her ability to indulge in her other interests, then she is not making a mistake. This therefore all boils down to her level of interest in computer science and why she is so opposed to doing maths A-level with it, and whether some universities are snobby about drama A-level. Fwiw, a lower proportion of people get top grades in computer science A-level than in maths, so it is not an easy option at all. She needs to go into this with her eyes open, but all I see when looking at that combination is a more interesting, multi-talented candidate than the average.