Thoughts on these A levels

[Slippersandshakes]

DD wants to do computer science, drama and RE at A level.

Got mainly grade 9s at GCSE so capable academically.
Will absolutely not consider taking maths and doesn’t want to do a comp sci degree so not worried about the fact maths is a requirement for that.

Would like to do some form of communication, programming, philosophy, ish type degree but not at all sure yet.

Would English be considered a more robust choice than drama? Would that help keep the doors open for certain unis?

Would appreciate thoughts as school not helping.

'Programming' is almost as broad a description as 'writing something in English'. You might write a novel, a poem, a technical report, a shopping list...
There are some fields in which you need to be able to write code but it's the subject of the code that requires specialist knowledge/skill more than the code itself (E.g. I write scientific software, while we do have computer scientists for some roles, our group are PhD scientists who can code. ). Something like some user interface design roles may require 'softer' skills - how do people interact with computers, design .... all sorts of things. 'Programming' can be very much a means to an end not an end in itself. It may be some of the latter types of thing the OPs DD is interested in.

I think a great career for your DD will be in Artificial Intelligence/Natural Language Processing. This field needs some programming knowledge, human behaviour awareness etc but no maths. I recruited someone with a Drama A level recently for this, it’s a good choice of subject. But I wonder if she can replace RE with psychology or philosophy?

Tbh A levels don’t really matter for recruitment but the university matters. So please think carefully about the target university/course.

When we went to the A Level choices round at DD's school, they absolutely told us (one of the other parents asked, I wasn't bothered) that Drama as an A Level is not a problem in terms of eg Oxbridge entry. If it's not a problem for Oxbridge, I'm guessing it's not a problem anywhere else. There isn't a child at DD's school who isn't high-achieving, and getting lots of people into Oxbridge and top US universities every year is kind of why some people choose it so I'm fairly sure they wouldn't be offering those subjects if it was a problem. It is a school stuffed full of people who are getting the sort of grades OP's DD has got.

It's all very well saying you'd choose comparative religion or philosophy but they might not be on offer.

I'd be very wary of telling a child who really wants to do something not to do it and to do something they find more boring instead.

I don’t agree they are academic, although drama is less of an issue than CS.

Pretty sure a lot of uni admissions tutors wouldn't agree with you.

All of the OPs DDs choices are perfectly acceptable (maybe even preferred for some course ) subjects for various degrees at oxbridge etc. Its the combination which is unusual.

This is all enormously out-of-date and snobby. I have worked in a very high-performing school (a school regularly in the top 5 academic independent schools) and no high achieving student was refused permission to study Drama (or even advised not to do it), unless thee was a specific subject requirement that they needed to fulfil. And almost every student there ended up going on to Oxbridge, Russell Group or an international Uni of comparative standing.

I'm not suggesting Drama is the reason they got on to an Engineering or Economics degree. The point I was making is Drama as one of their three did not prevent them getting on to the course they wanted to do, and all at top-class Universities. Obviously if there's a specific subject requirement (Maths and Physics, say, for engineering) then that's one thing, but Drama as the third will do no harm (and for degrees like English Lit or Law it can be actively helpful).

An interesting note - the student who got on to the Engineering course said that about 75% of the interview she had was focused on Drama and why she had chosen it alongside Maths, Further Maths and Physics.

I’m aware of that, my old school offers Drama/theatre studies, and they send 50% of the year to Oxbridge. But they also insist on 4 subjects in year 12 with most continuing to A level.

I think Drama is fine as a 4th OR, if 3, in a better combination of subjects.

If DD did Drama + English or History + RE - fine. Drama + Maths + another science - also fine. Drama + English/history and maths works too.

It’s the current line up that’s rather daffy and risks not really showing her abilities or serving her that well going forward.

NLCS, one of the most selective and highly performing private schools, offers Drama, as well as Philosophy/Theology. As does St Pauls. So clearly they don't find them constraining.

There are no "easy" A levels. There is a lot of analysis and essay writing in Drama, for example. DD has just got a place at a Russell Group Uni with Drama, RE with Philosophy and Media - she got offers from all 5 Unis she applied to. For what she wants to do she's at at top 3 Uni. Which is the point.

DD is at SPGS and until about two days ago was planning on Drama and Philosophy as two of her choices (she decided to switch from Philosophy to French because she hated the Philosophy summer reading she was set but loved the French stuff). The others she is choosing are Politics and Eng Lit. They all start 4 and most drop one after a year, unless they are either doing Maths and Further Maths (in which case they must do two others) or applying to American universities (who like breadth). There is no point in doing four otherwise unless you really want to work extremely hard as all universities in the UK will offer based on three.

At no point has it been suggested that Drama and Philosophy were poor choices. Universities will be well aware that some schools won't offer Philosophy and RS is the next most similar subject since the ethics part will have a fair amount of similar content.

Like Mirabai's school, they get a lot into Oxbridge every year. Some of DD's friends have chosen quite odd to me combinations but nobody is telling them not to do it because they recognise that studying subjects you love is much better than slogging away at things you don't really like that much but think you ought to do.

Who knows what connections you might make with a bunch of unrelated but interesting knowledge in your head? The world is changing, and sticking to these hidebound ideas of what subjects are appropriate isn't necessarily helpful as long as you are not doing subjects that aren't helpful for continuing study. OP's DD has chosen subjects that demonstrate that she's practical, creative, logical, analytical and good at writing. I think she will do fine with what she has chosen.

This is ridiculous. My kids are currently at a highly academic school and 2 of my nephews are at my old school. Both schools regularly in the top 5. It’s not a question of “permission” it’s more a question of guidance as to the best fit for the student. You may have a different experience as a teacher than a student/parent.

One thing both schools advise is to choose a group of subjects at A level that complement each other and be aware of degree course requirements. That is the input DD is not getting here.

I never talk about my kids on here and I don’t like talking about elite schools, but there really is other way to respond to this.

be aware of degree course requirements. That is the input DD is not getting here.

That's the thing... really, I think the DD needs to identify a few of the various courses she thinks she may be interested in at universities appropriate to her abilities and look at their requirements. If they're not clear or she's uncertain whether her preferred subjects fit or not (both in terms of necessary to get on the course and also to equip her to do it) then she should contact the admissions tutors - it's their job and they can be very helpful to kids working out their A level and uni options.

DD is at a v selective school and hasn't a clue what she wants to do at Uni. They can start 4 'A' levels but drop the 4th quite quickly as school say there really is no need to do 4 ( except F Maths).
As she hasn't a clue what she wants to do, she's just going with the 3 A levels she thinks she'll enjoy most/ do well in- Theatre Studies, History and RS ( although I think its technically Philosophy and Ethics).
School totally happy with that and having had a scout through various University websites her choices would be OK for many degrees- obviously not Science based ones but that's never going to happen anyway.

I literally provide this guidance as part of my role at a very academic school, and I am part of the team that manages UCAS applications. My advice has always done them well, so I do speak from experience - not just a teacher but a teacher who is heavily involved in University applications and managing A level choices.

I don’t disagree for a second that every pupil needs careful guidance and advice, and essentially there is no one-size fits-all approach, but I was specifically responding to the suggestions on here that Drama was a poor choice and would cause issues. Which it generally won’t.

Loads of people quoting subject combinations but none are doing what the OPs DD wants to do as a combination @Mirabai is correct. No subject is wrong but guidance is crucial.

Some RG courses are recruiting courses. Plenty are not competitive. So it’s no massive deal to get an offer from 5 RG unis. However if a course stipulates Eng lit for English and you have Drama, you might not get in. To do any English course at a top uni, English is better @Slippersandshakes You can look up what each uni wants. Have a look at 4 in the top 10 in the Complete University guide for English and see what they say. If they don’t want English for English or communications degrees, then drama is fine. RE covers essay bases too.

However CS seems odd on it’s own. Great shame she does not want to do maths. That’s such a useful A level to go with anything. It’s versatile. As is History. These, for example, open up management, economics and each individual subject plus philosophy, law and lots of others at elite unis. She should play to her strengths but take advice.

what school gets 50% to Oxbridge now?

I never said drama was a poor choice/would cause issues. I’m aware it’s a perfectly respectable A level as far as uni entrance goes. It’s just that, personally, I put it in the same bracket as History of Art as a slightly softer option than the straight essay or STEM subjects. (Perhaps unfairly). As I said above my issue with it in this context is in this combination not the subject itself.

I'm not sure CS without other STEM subjects is that odd nowadays - computer literacy is useful in so many ways. I would think there's technical aspects of drama/theatre where such skills are likely to be increasingly relevant.

Well they might be if you program lighting in the theatre but that’s very niche! The individual subjects here are all ones that sit alongside a traditional subject. So maths and CS. History and RE, English and Drama. Choose one combination from those then add any original choice for third subject. These are all uni subject specific subjects. Not subjects which offer a broader choice of uni subjects at the selective unis the DD could aim for.

I wonder if she will be interested in developing a future career role in the very relevant area of AI and data ethics? There is an urgent demand for expertise in this from policy makers, businesses, health care etc. If that is something she would contemplate. it is worth her glancing at the information given about the the Leverhulme Centre for the Future of Intelligence based at Cambridge. http://lcfi.ac.uk/about/
It would need postgraduate studies but a philosophy degree would keep that option open and would be a possibility from her set of A levels.

Forgot to add that Oxford also has an institute for AI in ethics
https://www.oxford-aiethics.ox.ac.uk/about-the-institute
Of course it is not just Oxford and Cambridge that are responding to the professional and research need of this area.

I don't feel I can advise on choice, but all I'd say is my DD did RE and thoroughly enjoyed it. For years her end goal was music, but she changed her mind just before applying to uni. She chose something totally different in the end, a sustainability course. The skills she gained in RE certainly helped with that, as well as the ethics side of things.

@sendsummer With due respects, those unis are bringing together experts. The DD here hasn’t chosen her A levels yet! Most people who will be working on this are already in work and very experienced. It’s difficult to see how A levels link in. Or what first degree to take. It’s a big leap
to get from RE and Drama to understanding AI.

It’s better that the DD understands these subjects are “companion” subjects. They sit better with one of the traditional subjects I listed.

Well they might be if you program lighting in the theatre but that’s very niche!

There will be more and increasing uses of programming skills in theatre etc than that. I had a brief search for 'computer programming theatre' and came across discussions about arduinos and embedded programming, for instance, which makes sense.
I don't disagree that a more congruent set of A levels would be better/easier for one set of uni choices or another. But there are combinations of disparate skills which may be useful in other less traditional paths. The walls of the boxes we think in are being broken down all the time!

@TizerorFizz the most frequent route to this would be via a philosophy degree as I said in my post. The OP mentioned philosophy as a future degree option that her DD was considering. Her interest in computer science at A level stage will give her more grounding than many humanity graduates and experts focussing on this area. This is not a short lived research or employment area that will have dissipated in the next few years.
We should be encouraging interdisciplinary knowledge and thought for the future.

I would prefer maths in there if she is able to do it. I would drop drama but get involved in acting extra curricular

We should be encouraging interdisciplinary knowledge and thought for the future.

Yes.
For many students, the standard obvious combinations of subjects will serve them well. But one size doesn't fit all and it's undeniable that our current system can lead to narrowing down too early. There are paths for students with a more esoteric/wider range of skills.

I'm sure I've seen lots of instances of kids doing a couple of arts/humanities and an apparently random science subject 'for breadth'. As someone who is a scientist who codes, it seems to me that CS is likely to be a much more useful choice in terms of actual usable skills than say biology without any other sciences.