Thoughts on these A levels

[Slippersandshakes]

DD wants to do computer science, drama and RE at A level.

Got mainly grade 9s at GCSE so capable academically.
Will absolutely not consider taking maths and doesn’t want to do a comp sci degree so not worried about the fact maths is a requirement for that.

Would like to do some form of communication, programming, philosophy, ish type degree but not at all sure yet.

Would English be considered a more robust choice than drama? Would that help keep the doors open for certain unis?

Would appreciate thoughts as school not helping.

Many schools do not allow 4 A levels unless one is Further Maths

Personally yes I would switch the drama for English if she wishes to pursue a philosophy or communication type degree and keep open the probability of offers from what others may consider a more prestigious uni whether that's RG or the other top ones such as St Andrews, Lancaster etc that aren't RG

If she is content with the possibility that in a competitive market with the birth rates going up this and next year that she may only get offers from lesser known name unis then her subjects are fine.

Yes, and OP also contradicts that by saying: “if she wants to do a degree with some form of comp sci or comms in it albeit not the pure comp sci maths degrees” and she also mentions programming. So it sounds as if DD has been considering some form of CS degree just not the pure maths ones. Either way, it’s clear DD hasn’t decided yet. It’s unusual to really want to do a subject at A level that you definitely wouldn’t consider for a degree and she may change her mind.

“If she is content with the possibility that in a competitive market with the birth rates going up this and next year that she may only get offers from lesser known name unis then her subjects are fine.”

In a competitive market, an A star or A in Drama is going to be worth more than a B in English. If you’re looking for a course that requires AAA, or higher, you need to take three A levels where you can get those grades.

So before suggesting ‘English is better’, OP needs to make sure DD is sufficiently interested in English to get an A. Otherwise she might as well do the subject she likes and will probably get high grades in.

She can explain on her personal statement how this broad and well-rounded combination has prepared her for the university course she wants to do.

DD is doing a Drama A Level as one of her choices at a very selective school with lots of experience in competitive university entry requirements both here and in America and has been assured that it is no barrier to Oxbridge entry, so I'm fairly sure that it won't limit your DD's options too much.

I think if this is what she wants to do, she should go ahead and do it. It is far far better to study subjects she likes and will do well in than end up miserable and slogging away at something she doesn't enjoy.

And showing that she has a logical brain (Comp Sci) and can write well (RE) and has more essay skills, presentation skills and practical skills as well (Drama) sounds like a perfectly good combination to me.

She loves computer science but doesn't want to do it at uni? But programming is in the mix? This confuses me a bit.

It may be that OP's DD does not like the abstract aspects of Maths and is drawn to the practical aspects of CS (and the dynamic aspects of Drama over Eng Lit); certainly her current preferences make sense to me.

In addition to Management degrees at the likes of U of Bath or U of Warwick, she might be interested in IT Management for Business (ITMB) degrees (eg Lboro, Lancs) which require an interest in and comfort with technology but put it all in a wider management and operational context; these courses are about developing excellent communicators who can bridge the divide that can exist between technology functions and the wider organisation. There are some excellent degree apprenticeship alternatives in this space also.

Some of the advice and assertions in this thread have been WILD.

A few thoughts ...

Drama is not a different subject to Drama and Theatre; at A Level they are all Drama and Theatre (Drama is just a shorthand reference). The WJEC board is absolutely not a preferred board.

Nothing wrong with that combination - particularly if they enjoy them, they are good at them, and whatever they are interested in doing does not have a specific instruction to do different subjects.

Drama is not going to close doors for you - I teach Drama and I also work in Sixth Form leadership, so literally do subject advice and manage UCAS for a whole range of applications. I have had plenty of students go off and do Drama and/or English, but as well as that I have had Drama students accepted on the following courses, all at Oxbridge or Russell Group Unis:
Engineering
Geophysics
Physics
Economics
Philosophy and Economics
Geography
Psychology
Law
German
History

Is it certainly true that, for example, a student getting AAA in subjects they are excelling in is better than BBB in subjects that meet an outdated notion of what 'facilitating' subjects are.

Why does Henrietta Barnett (one of the best state schoosl in the country) then mostly just do the traditional subjects if that is outdated and pointless?

Cambridge usefully lists subjects that keep more options open. This choice does limit options without maths. RE usually complements History and Drama goes with English. The list of degrees posted by @WayDownInTheHole is odd. No one can do engineering without maths. Drama is besides the point for engineers and physics and economics . All these subjects will have subject requirements and they won’t be RE, CS and Drama. So Drama would be a third subject.

However if she accepts this list will reduce options it won’t matter. The management degree at Bath doesn’t mention Drama as a complementary third subject. CS might be ok but they don’t mention that either in the numeracy list. So I would start looking at courses and check if these three work for the best unis for possible subjects, eg law, management.

Because it suits some people? Because they are not going to struggle to get numbers and know that they can get away with offering a smaller range of subjects, even if it alienates some?

Because it is a traditional school aiming to send as many as it can to Oxbridge, have a look at latest offer stats.
And I’m not sure people are saying traditional subjects are outdated and pointless. In fact some traditional subjects are/may be required to get into the top unis, and subjects like PE or media are not accepted.
It’s finding that balance of keeping options open and taking subjects you’re good at and/or enjoy.

Because it is a state school and can therefore only offer a limited number of subjects so must offer those that will have high take up. It isn't like a private school where they can run an A Level course with one or two people who want to take it. They need to be filling those classes, whatever size they are, or the teaching capacity to deliver the subjects will not be viable financially.

Russell Group produce a pretty good website for this, “Informed Choices”. Basically a tool to help you work out whether your A Level choices will affect the degree courses open to you at RG unis.

https://www.informedchoices.ac.uk/start

Because it is a state school and can therefore only offer a limited number of subjects so must offer those that will have high take up

Ime superselective privates tend to do the same as state - limited choice of core, well-respected A levels to keep options open for uni and career choice.

The less academic private and states tend to offer a wider range or at least a range of less hardcore subjects - subjects that are less challenging academically or subjects that will interest and enthuse students less interested in education generally.

It is certainly true that you won't see many superselective privates offering Media Studies or Product Design but then you won't see many state schools offering Latin or Russian.

The point is that, even at a private school, Latin and Russian are going to be relatively niche choices but they have the luxury of being able to run any course because they aren't subject to the financial pressures of a state school which absolutely must cater to its audience and run the courses that will get enough take up. DD's school has classes of one or two students in some subjects at A Level. It is absolutely a luxury. Henrietta Barnett, despite containing very similarly attaining girls to those at my daughter's school, is very unlikely to be able to offer that.

I don't think state schools offer a wider range unless it's a college where they have the sheer numbers to be able to do it. Mostly it's a slightly different range of subjects.

I know personally of several children in good high-attaining comprehensives who were not able to do the (academic, respected) subjects they ideally wanted because the school didn't get the sign up numbers it needed to run the course over the two years. I know of one who had to move schools because he was the only person in his year who wanted to do Further Maths (he ended up doing Maths at Oxbridge so really did need that).

Taken from Sheffield computer programming;

The A Level entry requirements for this course are:
A*AA
including Maths
A Levels + additional qualifications AAA, including Maths + A in a relevant EPQ; AAA, including Maths + A in AS or B in A Level Further Maths

Looking like maths might be key

One person I know who has had a highly successful career in tech and programming (worked for lots of high profile companies like Facebook etc) did a degree in creative writing at a lower-ranked and definitely not RG university and then an MA (MSc?) at Imperial in some kind of programming related thing - but much later on after he had already been working for a decade in the field.

Another friend started his own highly successful indie gaming business after a career in marketing (v successful games on Steam etc).

I do think it's a field where a degree in that specific area isn't necessarily the most important thing as long as you have the interest and talent (and keep doing/making your own stuff even when studying other things).

The point is that they (academic private schools) don’t run just any course - so that’s a non-starter. They stick to academic subjects.

I don’t disagree that state schools are more limited by finance and uptake I’m just saying that academic superselectives are limited too in their choices for different reasons.

Latin and Russian are not terribly niche in the private sector and state schools offer Classics or Mandarin for example.

Off the top of my head,
Eton, Westminster, Charterhouse, Sevenoaks, Habs (boys and girls), St Edwards, Haileybury, Radley, Winchester, Wellington ALL do A level drama in fact I can’t think of a single big name school (academic or not) that does not offer A level Drama.

Some of the posters on this thread are 40 years out of date and academic snobs to boot.

OP if your bright daughter loves drama listen to her and worry less.

Well, these are three academic subjects that the OP's daughter has picked. DD's school is arguably one of the highest performing schools in the country. The only one of those subjects the school doesn't offer is Comp Sci, I think. But as that is non-negotiable according to OP, there's no point worrying about that one. The other two are perfectly respectable academic subjects.

And Latin and Russian (and, I suspect, Mandarin) seem to be fairly niche at A Level in any sector in the sense that the numbers studying them are pretty small. I think the Russian class in DD's school at A Level will have two people in it. DD's Russian class at GCSE had four people in it. I can't see any state school offering a course with four or two people taking it. I don't know of a single comprehensive near me that offers any of those subjects at A Level and most of them are good schools that produce good students who go on to appropriately good universities. A minority might offer Classical Civilisation but then that is a much softer option than any of Latin, Russian or Mandarin.

DD’s state grammar (recently left) has a lovely range of courses, on top of the ‘traditional’ subjects it has 6 modern languages including Japanese and Mandarin., plus Latin. Psychology, economics, classical civilisation, politics. textiles, art, engineering, computer science, dance, Drama etc.

One of DD’s friends is about to start at Durham studying Maths having done Drama A level, Maths and FM. No other subjects. She is a major whizz at maths I might add.

I had a friend’s DD do PE, Art and Business. They struggled to find a degree course as no biology alongside PE, Business discounted by some unis,,Art great if you want to do an Art Foundation which she didn’t. She ended up choosing to do an accountancy course and not go to Uni and is very happy and debt free.

I did an English Lit degree and have never regretted it and been in a good and well paid career.

Why is everyone banging on about Sheffield?

And Computer Science isn’t a soft subject, and it is possible to get on to a degree or degree apprenticeship without math.

That sounds great, @PettsWoodParadise . Your DD is lucky!

I did a degree in Drama, as it happens (at a university not a drama school), and it hasn't been a problem in my working life!

I don’t agree they are academic, although drama is less of an issue than CS. Nothing is non-negotiable when you’re 17. RE is fine but I would personally choose comparative religion or theology and philosophy combined.

Like your DD I went to one of the highest performing schools in the country - and just because they offer softer A level choices doesn’t mean they recommend the high-achieving students should take them. Drama or art would be fine as a 4th for example - anyone choosing art in my day had to do history of art as well.

Fwiw they currently offer Latin, (Ancient) Greek, Russian and Mandarin, but the subject choices are relatively limited as I said. My best friend’s son is doing Mandarin at a state school and my nephew is doing Classics also at a state school.