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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Exeter uni reassurance please!

492 replies

seymour · 20/08/2023 17:32

Hi there, my daughter just got into Exeter uni through clearing but while she liked it when she visited ahead of the application process, she didn’t plump for it as her first choice as she felt it was quite “posh” and wasn’t sure if she would fit in. We are from a big city and she went to a comprehensive. Not trying to cause offence to anyone from a privileged background btw, we very much take every person as we find them, as does my daughter but just wondered if anyone could share their kids’ experiences? Thanks so much.

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GodessOfThunder · 28/08/2023 22:40

WombatChocolate · 28/08/2023 21:17

This thread shows lots of parents having real issues about background. I guess the thing it suggests to me, is that lots of people simply haven’t mixed with people from a range of backgrounds…..because if they had, a lot of these stereotypes and myths would be far less likely to exist…and to be passed o to our kids.

The vast majority of teens are simply interested in meeting people and making friends and finding people they get on with…..for most, as has been mentioned frequently, it doesn’t occur to them to ask where they went to school or type of school or job their parents do. Perhaps it’s more the parents when kids go home in the holidays, who ask where their friends live or type of school they went to.

All of these kids at the most competitive universities are bright and capable kids. They are going to get good degrees and enter the world with lots of opportunities. They are mixing with each other…all capable young people, who will access to lots of opportunities. It must be remembered this isn’t those from highly privileged backgrounds suddenly mixing with those who have come out of school without any qualifications or aspirations. Often the families who send their kids to private schools and those who don’t who have high achieving kids, have far more similarities than people might imagine. Many of the state educated kids going to the most competitive universities have educated parents in professional jobs, who live in the nicer areas of wherever they live. They often have very similar values and life experiences. Whether their kids are privately educated or not, really doesn’t make much difference and most if these parents could and will happily meet each other and chat when dropping off and picking up….they will have more in common than which separates them in most cases.

As has been said upthread, people forget that most who go to private schools don’t go to big names or boarding schools. Yes, some families are extremely affluent and living a luxurious jet-setting lifestyle…but many aren’t too. Parents developing the idea (and passing it into their kids) that lots of people are uni will be ‘other’ is just so unhelpful and often borne of inverse snobbery. But there are a number of examples on this thread.

In the end, Exeter is a good uni. It however does make offers to most people who apply and who have the predicted grades. It also often takes those who miss by a grade or two, so has plenty of students who are not straight. Grade students. It is achievable for lots of students who aren’t top-notch and there will be kids from lots of types of schools.

For kids who have had narrow life experiences (and it is many) and only ever spent much time with people from similar backgrounds….yes they will spend time with people from a wider range of backgrounds at uni. And most of the time it won’t be very relevant or considered and they absolutely find they have more in common that they might have imagined, as they meet real people and find out about them and not just a stereotyped background that they might have imagined before.

Your post is borne from an ideological commitment to conservatism (whether your self identify in these terms or not). You can’t (or don’t want) see how the privilege of the privately schooled is problematic because you support its ongoing existence.

I hold the views you object to and have mixed extensively with scores of the privately schooled professionally and socially over decades. from old Etonians to those lower key institutions. This experience has convinced me that their unearned privilege, and dominance in key areas of public and professional life it a travesty.

Anyone progressively minded who wants the best for their kids should teach them to “get on” with all sorts, but at the same time to recognise privilege and power so it can be challenged and levelled out.

Your points about parents of state and private alike are just diversion tactics.

Mirabai · 28/08/2023 22:41

pintery · 28/08/2023 22:24

What is clear from this thread is that it’s the state school students who need to mix more.

Well they mix with a much more socially diverse group at school. It would be great if DC who are currently privately educated could also be included, I agree.

It’s not socially diverse if they’re scared of a big bunch of people they’ve never socialised with.

pintery · 28/08/2023 22:48

It’s not socially diverse if they’re scared of a big bunch of people they’ve never socialised with.

I can't see how these are related? Social diversity is just that, it doesn't depend on the fears or behaviour of people. Obviously private school students are what's missing from state schools. As has been pointed out, there are lots of rich and/or middle class people at state schools, so that economic / class group is represented. An interesting question is what is it about the private school identity that makes them less palatable, if not wealth or class.

Askil · 28/08/2023 22:49

pintery · 28/08/2023 22:24

What is clear from this thread is that it’s the state school students who need to mix more.

Well they mix with a much more socially diverse group at school. It would be great if DC who are currently privately educated could also be included, I agree.

State school parents on MN like to bang on about 'social diversity' and how Comps provide this in bucket loads. It's a strong criticism of private schools. Yet, despite this early introduction to a very socially diverse student community the threads on here from parents worried about universities that are not posh' and DC of Mners avoiding the 'poshos' students are neverending. It seems social diversity according to MN only goes one way - equal to or downwards is alright. Those from higher income brackets are to be feared, loathed and actively avoided.
I can't decide whether this is because it gives people a certain sense of, 'We are not snobs see, we are mixing with those just like us or on lower incomes' or people really don't understand that true social diversity must cover all social backgrounds. Only then can this fear of 'posh universities' stop.

Mirabai · 28/08/2023 22:54

pintery · 28/08/2023 22:48

It’s not socially diverse if they’re scared of a big bunch of people they’ve never socialised with.

I can't see how these are related? Social diversity is just that, it doesn't depend on the fears or behaviour of people. Obviously private school students are what's missing from state schools. As has been pointed out, there are lots of rich and/or middle class people at state schools, so that economic / class group is represented. An interesting question is what is it about the private school identity that makes them less palatable, if not wealth or class.

I think the real question is what on earth your problem is with privately educated people - it’s most bizarre.

You’re apparently not scared of posh people as long as they’ve been to state school.

Askil · 28/08/2023 23:07

GodessOfThunder · 27/08/2023 14:53

The point of private education is allow the wealthier members of society to purchase unearned privilege for their children

The point of our family using private education was to find the best education possible for our dc that includes, access to extra curricular activities that we otherwise wouldn't have had the inclination towards and all in one spot, small class sizes, good sports, an overall ethos that fits better with our family values.
That is an opportunity given to us by the state.
We don't have any family history of private education nor belong to any wealthy families the type people imagine on MN. Providing the best education possible within our means is our responsibility to our dc as far as we are concerned.

WombatChocolate · 28/08/2023 23:14

Mirabai · 28/08/2023 22:39

I don’t think it would make the blindest bit of difference. The insecurities are rooted in class not school.

I look at this from an outsider perspective - been to state and private schools, part French and spent time in France, where they really don’t go in for this kind of bollocks, and I’m a poc - thus can’t be pigeon-holed in simplistic way people are determined to on this thread, but I am of a genuine minority in a way most people on the thread have no experience of.

Growing up - state and private school mixed with no concern, and I see the same patterns in kids around me as an adult. The apartheid created on this thread is false imo and rooted in fear rather than practical reality.

I agree.
This thread has become about fear that a small number have. It’s fear of the unknown and of fear that other people will be different to oneself. Some people seek out difference rather than seeing there is much more commonality.

Fortunately, most students starting uni give little thought to the backgrounds of the other students they meet and take people as they find them. This thread suggests everyone is worried, insular and doesn’t want to mix. But this is the voice of a tiny minority speaking here and I hope anyone coming to this thread in the future, who has some of these kind of fears or concerns ahead of their child starting university realises that uni is exactly the place where capable teens from a range of backgrounds meet each other. They will make friendships, some of which will last a lifetimes and many will find their life-partners too…..from similar and different backgrounds to themselves. All of them have a chance to grow up and learn a huge amount and not just academically. It’s exciting and something to be excited about and embrace, not something to start with fear and a sense of oneself or others being alien.

pintery · 28/08/2023 23:24

Those from higher income brackets are to be feared, loathed and actively avoided.

As I just said, it's not to do with income - there are plenty of wealthy families whose kids don't go to private school.

pintery · 28/08/2023 23:27

True social diversity must cover all social backgrounds. Only then can this fear of 'posh universities' stop

Again, a great argument for scrapping private education. Although there are plenty of rich middle class DC in the state system, so it's not to do with the social background of privately educated, I don't think.

pintery · 28/08/2023 23:30

I think the real question is what on earth your problem is with privately educated people - it’s most bizarre.

I forgot to answer this - I don't have a problem with privately educated people (I am one).

Askil · 28/08/2023 23:37

pintery · 28/08/2023 23:27

True social diversity must cover all social backgrounds. Only then can this fear of 'posh universities' stop

Again, a great argument for scrapping private education. Although there are plenty of rich middle class DC in the state system, so it's not to do with the social background of privately educated, I don't think.

Inability to explain the reason behind the fear of mixing with privately educated dc (if it's not wealth) at university is not a great argument for the scrapping of private education. It's an interesting question however that needs to be answered by you and those who feel the same.

pintery · 29/08/2023 08:12

Inability to explain the reason behind the fear of mixing with privately educated dc (if it's not wealth) at university is not a great argument for the scrapping of private education. It's an interesting question however that needs to be answered by you and those who feel the same.

I don't feel the same - as I said, I went to private school myself, as did my three siblings. I also work in an industry which has long had a high proportion of private school and Oxbridge alumni.

The argument for scrapping private education came out of PPs' posts about how DC should mix! So why wait until university, by which time beliefs are clearly entrenched? If mixing with a wide range of people is good for DC, surely it would be better to start that when they're four and let them all grow up and be educated together. It's not state school students who are choosing to avoid this.

Delphigirl · 29/08/2023 08:12

I love this idea that if you scrapped private education the kids now required to go into the state system would be any different at all. The cohort of chippy parents who are so well represented in this thread would still hate them because of their perceived “poshness” in accent or dress or pastimes and the “posh” kids would still be totally unaware and carrying on as normal, this enraging the chippy parents further. What next, banning the ownership of ski chalets or horse boxes?

Some people will simply never be happy because of a burning fury that other people are living more congenial lives. Comparison is the there of joy, people.

pintery · 29/08/2023 08:18

The cohort of chippy parents who are so well represented in this thread would still hate them because of their perceived “poshness” in accent or dress or pastimes

I don't think so - as is pointed out as nauseam on MN (especially around Oxbridge offer time), there are many wealthy / posh / privileged DC at state schools and they get along fine and are not hated.

Mirabai · 29/08/2023 08:43

pintery · 29/08/2023 08:12

Inability to explain the reason behind the fear of mixing with privately educated dc (if it's not wealth) at university is not a great argument for the scrapping of private education. It's an interesting question however that needs to be answered by you and those who feel the same.

I don't feel the same - as I said, I went to private school myself, as did my three siblings. I also work in an industry which has long had a high proportion of private school and Oxbridge alumni.

The argument for scrapping private education came out of PPs' posts about how DC should mix! So why wait until university, by which time beliefs are clearly entrenched? If mixing with a wide range of people is good for DC, surely it would be better to start that when they're four and let them all grow up and be educated together. It's not state school students who are choosing to avoid this.

They’re only entrenched in your head that’s the point. Everyone else just mucks in together, at school, at uni and thereafter, no-one really cares.

As I have said, parents don’t choose private school to ‘avoid’ mixing with other state schools students, they may have gone to state school themselves and may choose a mix of state and private for their kids. Generally parents make choices on the suitability and facilities of the school.

Mirabai · 29/08/2023 08:44

pintery · 28/08/2023 23:30

I think the real question is what on earth your problem is with privately educated people - it’s most bizarre.

I forgot to answer this - I don't have a problem with privately educated people (I am one).

If that’s true your perspective is even more nonsensical.

TizerorFizz · 29/08/2023 08:48

Reading this, I’m beginning to see why posh and ordinary people might want to avoid the Dc of some people! They will see the huge weight of the chip coming from a mile off. Best to swerve it.

My DD met such people whilst doing post grad training. The majority just find them utterly boring and not fun to be with. So they are avoided whilst most mix very happily and are from a variety of backgrounds. What they study unites the majority. The tiny minority with the chips have to find their own type of angry person to be mates with and they struggle.

It is heartening to know nearly everyone really gets on. Most bright and sensible young people do work out that carrying that chip around is lonely.

pintery · 29/08/2023 09:20

They’re only entrenched in your head that’s the point.

As I said previously, you only have to read this thread to see it. From my personal perspective, at that age I had just come out of private education myself, and now I am surrounded by privately educated people at work and in my family. These views are not entrenched in my head!

As I have said, parents don’t choose private school to ‘avoid’ mixing with other state schools students

Nevertheless it is an inevitable consequence.

If that’s true your perspective is even more nonsensical.

Why? Surely it's possible to be privately educated and still able to wonder - if mixing is so great, and not to be feared, and will help people to recognise that their similarities are greater than their differences, as PPs have described when encouraging state school students to mix at university, wouldn't it be better to just do that from the start, before the 'us and them' narrative ever takes hold?

Mirabai · 29/08/2023 09:34

As I said previously, you only have to read this thread to see it

What you see from this thread is entrenched perspectives towards private school students, nothing going the other way.

Are you now saying you left private school with a bad attitude to state school students? If yes, that’s on you. If no, what’s the problem?

If you went to private school yourself you’ll know there’s much mixing with state students to the point that no-one really knows or cares what the fee status of others’ schools are. It’s not an inevitable consequence that students don’t mix. You may have chosen not to mix.

GodessOfThunder · 29/08/2023 10:20

pintery · 28/08/2023 22:39

Very interested in this argument that it's state school students who should be mixing more, when private school parents have chosen to have their children educated separately from everyone else.

I know - it’s hilarious/tragic isn’t it?

The state schooled have to do the work, rather than the other way round, because the privately supposedly “accept” the state schooled already Yet, in numerous areas of public and professional life the privately schooled are hugely disproportionate, such is their “acceptance”.

Mirabai · 29/08/2023 10:25

It’s purely pragmatic - if you’re afraid of dogs/heights/ghosts it’s not the dogs that have to do the work is it?

EmpressoftheMundane · 29/08/2023 11:04

@GodessOfThunder at Exeter University which is what we are talking about, what are private school pupils doing to harm state school pupils? Any behaviours beyond existing in a shared space?

not4profit · 29/08/2023 15:55

What an odd thread, some of the responses are astonishing.

I went to Exeter many years ago, from a provincial independent school, speaking with a northern regional accent. My parents were from working class backgrounds, and my siblings went to state schools. I doubt anyone knew or cared what type of school I came from. I had friends from all types of school including a handful from big name boarding schools but they were just normal teenagers. I've had children at 4 different London day schools and they have had a wide range of friends from very wealthy to those on full bursaries- and they are all normal lovely kids. I have watched sports fixtures at Eton and other public schools- the boys were indistinguishable from those at any of the other schools I watched, state or private, or club fixtures.

Even back in the 80s Exeter had a reputation for being "Sloaney" but whilst some of those students may have dressed a little differently from the average, they did no harm to anyone and I don't remember anyone being intimidated by them. OP, your daughter will be fine!

GodessOfThunder · 29/08/2023 16:01

"What you see from this thread is entrenched perspectives towards private school students, nothing going the other way."

That’s because the privately educated enjoy unearned privilege. Through their parents’ money and the type of education it purchases, they have an easier ride to: good A-level grades, a place at a good university, extracurriculars, cash to live in nice accommodation, and, often through personal and parental contacts, work experience and future employment.

This contravenes many people’s notion of what is fair, irrespective of the fact that private schools are currently legal (which, IMO, they should not be). This dynamic is not in play the other way around.

There’s also, in my experience, often an unattractive and overbearing sense of entitlement among the privately educated, a superficial "confidence" and bearing that can, for instance, win over a job interviewer when that candidate is not necessarily the best one. Of course, few parents of the privately educated, especially if they were privately educated themselves, will acknowledge or even recognise this. To them, they are simply "normal" kids. This is akin to how many white people often can’t recognise their own privilege.

At university, in my experience at least, the privately educated often have more resources: perhaps a car; a higher weekly budget for entertainment, etc.; parental cash to live in better accommodation; parental cash for holidays, etc. This means the privately educated can fit in with those less well resourced if they wish to, but, again, it doesn’t always work the other way around. That is why it is understandable and entirely rational for some state-schooled kids (the vast majority of whom, outside of a few Home Counties bubbles, are not as wealthy as the privately educated, despite comments to the contrary above) to be wary of situations and universities with a large overrepresentation of the privately educated. If you are state-schooled and not from a wealthy background and attend a university that has 30% of its student body privately educated, you are reducing the pool of people you are likely to get along with, or perhaps more accurately, share a similar lifestyle with. It’s not simply an irrational "fear" to consider this.

That said, university is a great opportunity to make new friendships, and these may well include some between private and public school kids. I would actually encourage state-schooled kids to meet at least some private-schooled kids, as the state-schooled will realise they are likely brighter and harder-working if they have gained a place on the same course as a privately educated kid but without a leg up purchased by parents. This, of course, sadly, doesn’t counter the fact that post-university kids from wealthier families often unfairly scoot ahead as they can secure work experience through contacts, subbed through internships, and draw on parental contacts for jobs.

Private education creates inequality. The suggestion in the posts above that we should somehow be blind to this inequality is just another way of maintaining the status quo to the advantage of the privately educated, driven by an adherence to conservative ideology. Britain is already one of the most unequal Western ‘developed’ countries, yet greater equality is key to creating a happier, better functioning society (see "The Spirit Level" by Pickett and Wilkinson and a vast amount of academic literature for evidence). As I mentioned upthread, I encourage my DC to get along with anyone but to recognise privilege (including their own) where it unfairly manifests itself.

stubiff · 29/08/2023 16:16

Blimey @GodessOfThunder there are some sweeping generalisations there!

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