Advice needed on university choices

[Universitynewbie]

Hi, I am looking for some advice for my daughter regarding what universities might not be worth applying to for a state school pupil for courses in the following areas economics/finance/actuarial science. She would love to go to a highly rated university but is worried she won't be considered for some because she is from a state school rather than independent school and doesn't want to waste her choices if there is very little chance of her getting in. Does anyone have any advice or personal experience at all?

Re the point about fees. If studying in England bear in mind the fees cap at £9.250 last year is 2024-25. So if starting 2024, Y2 and Y3 could be higher. Current predictions vary widely from £12,500 to doubling.

Please please don't worry about this. Unis will be falling over themselves to accept a fantastic student from a state school.

Sadly I can't see the cap being lifted after that at all. No political party has the appetite for that.

Sorry I have been trying to reply and thank everyone individually but have lost track.
I just want everyone to know I am listening to each and every bit of advice- course suggestions, points regarding tuition fees and interest rates, living expenses etc and it has all been incredibly helpful.
Hopefully to answer a couple of questions:
Daughter does not have ASD (maybe it would ha e been better if she had asked these questions as I am sure she could have worded everything better!)
Although she probably wouldn't be keen if she went to a university in Glasgow she would be able to live at home so that could help with the money side of things. Anywhere else in Scotland she would probably have to live out.

Dd finished her degree in London in 2019 and has 57k debt. That's tuition plus living loan.

Hey OP, just catching your thread.

My DS is state school educated & with 5 As at Higher had unconditional offers (ie wirh just these results, not taking his Adv Highers from S6 into the equation) from St Andrew's, Edinburgh & Glasgow (he didn't get into Oxford) for Maths. He decided on Glasgow (for various reasons, but it is highest in the league tables in Scotland for Maths), has finished first year & is so, so happy there.

In first year they do a combination of pure & applied Maths, and you can choose Statistics (as he has), Finance, Economics, Physics and a myriad of others from loads of other faculties, to a total of 3, so you have a wider basis in that first year. He also chose Earth Science as he's a bit of a Geographer too.

It's an intense course, constant tests, but he says that keeps you sharp. He said those without Adv Highers found it much tougher.

He's narrowing to Maths & Stats this year (with an elective for one term- he's doing a spot of philosophy for the hell of it- to allow that broadening again).

I was v impressed with the Edinburgh offer holder's day too- got a good vibe; St A's offered too late for us, and despite DN loving it there, DS wanted a big city uni.

I'm sure your DD will do well wherever she chooses.

It's tough when you're the parent OP & you have no knowledge of the whole application system. I was that first time parent last year navigating an Oxford application totally blind. Take your time, you have plenty time before the deadline.

Oh gosh, that is a lot. What is living loan? Do they get to borrow more in London? Did she have time to work at all while doing her degree?

Thank you, what advanced highers did your son study?

And we are also in Glasgow, so DS lived at home for first year (30 mins on public transport). He's living out for 2nd year as he wants that experience. Flats are tough to find, but it can be done- his rent is £625 a month plus bills, so that gives you an idea. He's in the US for 4 months this summer, so I'm left to organise 🤣.

I'm biased, but Glasgow is a phenomenal city to be young in; his friends & gf from England all agree!

If she’s got the grades she’ll get the offers. There absolutely isn’t discrimination- it’s just that independent schools often have better careers/UCAS advice and more confident students.

He did Adv Highers in Maths & Physics, deciding to do 3 more Highers (Biology/ PE/ Graphics) instead of Chemistry to give him a broader experience.

On a side note, DS2 has just finished his Highers & in S6 is doing no Adv Highers - it's not his thing & that's fine- he's also doing 3 more Highers & a practical electronics course to fill in some time.

Feel free to send me a PM if you fancy any further chat about the Glasgow option.

Totally overthinking. Just let her pick the ones she wants to go to.

Hi, OP -

Former Russell Group Admissions Tutor here. My subject is Maths-adjacent and DH is a Russell Group Maths professor.

You come across as a dedicated mum! But you are definitely worrying too much. St Andrews may or may not be a bit snooty (I have heard conflicting reports) but otherwise the sector truly welcomes state school pupils.

Having a cousin at university but no one in the family from previous generations, your DD sounds like a first generation student. She may be eligible for contextual offers.

The Glasgow prgramme linked above is outstanding and IMO Glasgow Maths is one of the gems of the Russell Group. Student satisfaction and research are both excellent. The university is in a great part of town. Worth investigating!

Edinburgh and Heriot- Watt are paired up in a way I don’t fully understand. Most of the strongest Maths programmes are at Edinburgh and your DD should investigate them. But the Actuarial Science programme at H-W in internationally renowned and certainly merits a serious look.

I agree with the PP who says Actuarial Science is a bit of a niche degree. This has both plusses and minuses. Students are highly employable and job satisfaction is excellent. The main minus of the degree programme is that because it is tightly targeted there is less chance to explore other topics. One can also do Statistics or a Financial Maths type of degree then become an actuary, beginning lower down.

Lots of good options in England, obviously. But I am another who asks, why would you?
Best wishes

Hi
Another Scottish mum here. My dd is about to go in to her final year of an Mmath at St Andrews. She has absolutely loved it and is flying. I know another poster said Glasgow is top of the Scottish league tables( not sure which league table this is as there are many and may all say something different) however leaving league tables aside she should apply for the uni and course that most meets her needs and wishes. I would agree with definitely taking AH maths in 6th year as otherwise she may feel behind the curve on a maths degree. My dd did Ahs in Maths physics and mechanics of maths.
Open days are fantasic my dd had thought about economics but open days ruled that out. She was completely buzzing after the maths talks.
Just to reassure you my dd has a mix of friends at uni she is having a fab time socially.
Hope this helps.

I know plenty of people that went to Edinburgh uni that went to state schools, one person started last year and went to a very poor reputation school so no discrimination.

My friends DD has just started training as an actuary with a well known company on a graduate training scheme. She took mathematics at degree level.

I would strongly advise your DD to take up the gift of no tuition fees if possible. I used to be an admissions officer at a leading University but am in a bit of a rush so will try and remember to come back to this thread.

From the oxford university website

Highers and Advanced Highers
We welcome the valuable skills developed by students studying within the Curriculum for Excellence and would usually expect AAAAB or AAAAA in Scottish Highers, supplemented by two or more Advanced Highers.
Conditional offers will usually be for AAB if a student is able to take three Advanced Highers; where this is not possible then a student would be expected to achieve AA in two Advanced Highers, as well as an A grade in an additional Higher course taken in Year 6.

Edinburgh published stats last year and amongst Scottish fee status pupils it is 25%/75% private/state. When DD applied 3+ years ago there were published stats on offer rates by fee status per subject. At the time for DDs subject (economics) it was 11% for StA, 20% Edinburgh and 100% Glasgow (they guaranteed with 5As - not sure this is still the case). Look up to help manage your DDs expectations. My DD would have been happy with any of her choices which is just as well as she didn't get StA (feedback was that she wasn't anything special - I paraphrase but that was the jist).

Agree with others about importance of AH maths. Does her school offer Economics? DDs didn't but she did an OU YASS economics course. Loved it but found uni Economics quite different (much more mathsy). It might be useful to get as much experience this year in economics/maths/finance to help her choose/rule out and will help with personal statement. DD did work experience with Morgan Stanley (hated it but useful for her to rule out finance). Schoolfriend did an actuarial maths experience day. Loved it and went to Heriot Watt to do actuarial science (2nd year entry). He chose it as it got the max professional exam exemptions in the shortest time but only suits those who are sure on financial maths area. Not sure you can get 2nd year entry in Scotland for economics but if your DD isn't sure then probably best with 1st year entry.

Worth also looking at the uni environment. Some unis more supportive than others. Look at student satisfaction as league tables are heavy on research output (not so important for undergrads)

Good luck.

With those excellent higher grades she should be looking to apply to top Scottish and English Universities such as Edinburgh, St Andrews, Glasgow but also could take a punt with Cambridge, (Oxford only offers Economics and Management) and Warwick or Durham or LSE. For mathematical subjects/economics she may need to be preparing for the Autumn TMUA (enrolment in September) or other exams. The best way to do this is past papers which are available on-line. Economics/Mathematical subjects are very competitive and these other exams are used to distinguish between the top students. She needs to decide where she will apply now to do the appropriate add on exams. For Cambridge, her UCAS application will need to be in by 15th October but she can add the other 4 choices later, if she isn't sure what to put down for her other 4. If she doesn't try Cambridge, she has until January to make her mind up.

I'm assuming she also has good ordinary grades and is doing advances highers!

advanced

The only think I would say is depending on your ability to subsidise her to take into account cost of living.

Often the universities that are seen as posh actually have really low living costs as halls are subsidised eg Oxford. And London was always seen as expensive but remember you get a higher loan in London.

It is areas like Brighton where student housing costs are as high as London but without the increased London loans. Bristol and Edinburgh are also high cost areas.

@Alittlewornout it is good to know that your DD is thriving at St Andrew’s Maths.

I had mentioned Glasgow. Maths performed superbly in the most recent Research Exercise Framework, coming tops in Scotland and displacing one of the traditional English powerhouses. IIRC their UK ranking was 5. Together with their consistent strength in student satisfaction and Teaching and Learning, this is a double-barrelled strength that should be taken very seriously. An exciting research environment is good for advanced undergraduates.

St Andrews, by contrast, is known for absolutely outstanding Teaching and Learning, student satisfaction, pastoral care, etc — although as I mentioned it is so full of Oxbridge rejects (as my own English institution is - no criticism intended) that I have heard of mixed experiences from Scottish students. Perhaps that is changing.

OTOH, in Maths it is not so strongly research focussed. Is a strong research focus necessary for a brilliant undergraduate experience? Of course not.

@mushroom3 warwick is outstanding in Maths (though it may have been Warwick who were displaced by Glasgow Maths in the 2021 REF). Durham not so much; its academic strengths lie elsewhere. However the positive features of St A’s I mentioned in the previous paragraphs largely apply.