Trying to understand clearing - grades seem so low for Exeter

[Revengeofthepangolins]

DS2 is year 12 so am browsing clearing to try to get some context for next year and to help him chose his UCAS 5.

Exeter asks for AAA for both English and Liberal Arts, but seems to have them in clearing now for ABC and BBC respectively (even lower for internationals). That seems a really surprisingly lower tarrif. Is that normal? And does it suggest that if their offer holders achieve these grades, Exeter will still accept them?

@ShanghaiDiva It really is not very difficult to understand that some English degrees require an in depth knowledge of English literature through the centuries with strong emphasis on Shakespeare, Chaucer and many classic authors and poets, and they are considered challenging degrees. By many people! Other English degrees avoid these and the core is a more varied diet and allow greater choice of accessible modern literature. I’m not an expert but I do know some DC would find the latter easier and more to their taste. They would run a mile from a degree with the former. So the challenge is different!

The key differences between a “challenging” English degree and one that is less so, don't so much the texts selected. After all, Shakespeare is studied by 13 year olds and Chaucer at GCSE. The difference lies in the sophistication of the critical analysis expected, the degree of independent thought brought forward and the amount to time to deliver all this.

A an analysis of a Jilly Cooper novel deploying the full gamut of post-structuralist literary theory and delivering a contribution to knowledge would be a more demanding piece of work than a less theoretically sophisticated approach to, say, “The Tempest.”

“don’t so much depend on” that should be

A lecturer at another Russell group uni told me that on his course they hadn’t had any students come through clearing the previous year.

It really is not very difficult to understand that some English degrees require an in depth knowledge of English literature through the centuries with strong emphasis on Shakespeare, Chaucer and many classic authors and poets, and they are considered challenging degrees. By many people! Other English degrees avoid these and the core is a more varied diet and allow greater choice of accessible modern literature. I’m not an expert but I do know some DC would find the latter easier and more to their taste. They would run a mile from a degree with the former. So the challenge is different!

Your answer shows you are not an expert @TizerorFizz

I don’t care really but maybe studying JillyCooper’s bonkbusters is a problem? Not going to be seen as challenging by anyone I’m afraid. Sadly this might explain why English grads are low in the earnings tables.

Rishi’s fave though! ;)

And he’s loaded!

Not by studying Jilly Cooper! He did study something challenging!

FWIW I think you both make valid points above. I agree with @GodessOfThunder that the level of sophistication of the analysis is a factor, but multi-layered plots and complex characterisation and language lend themselves much more readily to that type of deconstruction than a Jilly Cooper novel does. There is a reason you can read a large number of critical studies of, say, Austen and very few of Cooper.

So @TizerorFizz is surely correct to say that studying an historical spread of classic novels, plays and poetry through the ages makes for a more challenging English degree than being able to confine your studies to modern novels and avoid all Shakespeare (and indeed pretty much any playwright), as a family member recently did.

@thing47 As I have never studied literature other than O level, which was Shakespeare, Chaucer and George Eliot, I do find it amazing you can get an Eng Lit degree without studying some heavyweights. I was 15 and studying Chaucer! Jilly C would surely have been easier?

Fair!

Clearing varies from year to year, its down to how many thats entered and if its an over subscribed course, how many have already got a place from that years exams results. I did this last year for Reading zoology. They asked for BBB, but the clearing grades were CCD.
We looked at her progress report with school, and mock year 12 results and made a bit of a judgement from the there to look at the UCAS top 5. We looked at a website called ''What Uni'' and took it from there really. How many years course, city uni/campus uni, modules likes and dislikes. Then we chose 5 to visit which had a variety of entrance grades: ABB, BBB, BBB, BBB, BBC. Go with the 5 unis for UCAS, clearing can come later. If DS likes Exeter he should have it in his top five if he he thinks he can get the grades and the school predicts he can get them as well.

Zoology isn’t that competitive though. For some competitive courses, there won’t be clearing.

Once the uni's get the grades from UCAS on Friday you may see changes in Clearing next week.
Also why was accommodation an issue at Warwick? I know it's not walking distance from year 2 but my dd chose Warwick over Exeter as her insurance (for another course). The good thing about warwick accommodation from year 2 is that there is so much choice/supply.

But it doesn't look the greatest for Exeter does it, advertising places with such low grades? Other unis at similar level don't seem to be doing the same

In the profession, Exeter’s English department is known as one of the best. It’s also one of the largest (if not the largest) English departments in the country. I imagine they need to recruit more students for that reason, and at a time when overall national applications to English departments is declining. Thanks to our appallingly boorish, short-sighted and frankly incompetent government.

I was External examiner there for quite some time; it’s an excellent department which sets high standards for its students. So if they do end up taking applicants with lower than normal grades, those students may not graduate with the standard 2, I. They’ll probably need to work extremely hard to get up to scratch.

Or those lower grades are for the Penryn campus.

This is at a tangent, but posters on another thread have noticed Clearing offers for other competitive courses in a very different area. My pet theory is that unis like to have at least a couple of spare places in case there are any good last-minute applicants. But my experience as a teacher is that those competitive Clearing places will probably be gone before Results Day, or at least by mid-morning.

@GeorgeSchmeliott I think English is not as competitive as it used to be. I don’t think the government has much to do with it. What I do think is that more parents are inclined to want DC doing a degree that directly leads to work. Or more directly than English.

English is, of course, very useful for all sorts of reasons but it’s becoming quite a middle class degree. Now parents view loans as directly affecting DC, (as opposed to their day without loans or no uni at all) so they want Dc to look at the economics of degrees. English languishes near the bottom of earnings for degree holders. Lower than teaching or nursing.

So, in my view, Exeter or Warwick makes little odds. Who will really care that some DC are let in at Exeter with lower grades? Employers will be looking at work experience and transferable skills. Not who did the same course with BBB! There’s long been a big divide of grades on MFL courses at many decent unis: and who noticed? Hardly anyone.

Thing is, most universities now offer a range of contextual offers, you won't know how low those are, or to whom they are given. Exeter, for example, makes low offers to locals in the West Country, and other contextual types. Bristol also has a long list of contextual offer criteria.

Apart from a very small elite bunch, most unis now have contextual offers, so DC's are likely to have a wider range of students in their cohorts. Does it matter? Probably not. DD and a couple of her friends are full A* students, they "only" needed AAA, they were also Oxbridge interviewees, but rejected, so you could equally say they are too good for the course!

A levels are really only important in so far as the higher grades you get, the more options are open to you for the next step. Once you have a degree the vast majority of professions/companies won't be interested in your A level grades (law, and some City finance companies are the main exception to this apparently). Universities also mostly aren't interested in A level grades when you apply for a Masters or other higher degree.

University-style teaching and learning are very different from school – some people hate it and some people thrive in it – so it's perfectly possible to get average A levels and very good degrees, just as it's possible to do the opposite…

All of which is to say if your DS ends up loving a particular university @Revengeofthepangolins he shouldn't be put off by the fact that the course he wants accepts people with much lower grades through clearing.