York, Durham, Exeter

[GodessOfThunder]

These universities seem feature in a disproportionate amount of discussion on Mumsnet as institutions commenters see as desirable for their DC to attend. Obviously they are well regarded universities, but why do they attract more discussion here than other Russell group universities, especially those in northern and midlands post-industrial cities such as Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham and Birmingham?

A few possible reasons were suggested by DH:

• They enjoy an undue level of perceived prestige due to being in smaller old cities/towns like Oxbridge
• The Mumsnet user base is skewed towards the SE and biased against post-industrial cities. Mumsnetters are less likely to be familiar with them and hold “grim up north” perceptions.
• There is a “showing off” factor in starting threads and commenting that DC has applied for, or attends, these institutions - the same goes for the “Oxbridge support” threads, the like of which you never see for red bricks.

Does anyone agree, or are there other explanatory factors?

@Xenia - probably for another thread, but this comment made me so sad - "In my day at Manchester if you were worried about boys attacking you (yes that problem has always been with us for women since the dawn of time) you could pick single sex girls' hals including one run by nuns my friend was at which had an early curfew and boys not allowed on the premises."

Why are we putting the onus on girls to lock themselves up to be safe? Universities who don't have robust policies (or do, and don't act on them) should be called out, and named and shamed. Students who attack girls should be named and shamed and prosecuted. The onus shouldn't be on the girls to lock themselves away from half the human race :(

The free market is a poor steward, it does an appalling job of providing access to elite institutions, many of whom actually do not offer value for money or even live up to their reputation - unless you want to be an at elite advisory firm or the magic circle or on the periphery of those. There are often better options although many of those are still questionable for the for ethnic monitories ( unless you are an overseas student) or those from less affluent areas. There is a reason that tutors who have students who have secured place at Oxbridge, the Golden Triangle and the Russell Group can charge high 2 figure/3 figure hour rates.

Honestly having been to one of these Universities OP I had to laugh this as well.

What is the “golden triangle “ in this context @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting ?

Oxbridge and UoL (minus Queen Mary’s)

It could have been written better - I was referring to perception of northern post-industrial cities, rather than, say, York.

Exeter and Durham have the reputation of being "posh". They take a lot of people who didn't make Oxbridge!

I don't think there is a widespread perception of grim northern cities. Loads of southern students go to places like Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, and Newcastle (which is very rah - or at least it was).

Durham is considered to be up there with Oxbridge. Exeter is perhaps trading on past glories a bit, and is also far enough away from the south east without being too far away. Maybe York is just "in fashion" currently.

Out of my acquaintances ("naice" middle class area in the south) with kids at university, they are at Cardiff, Sheffield, Durham, York, Sunderland, Glasgow and Leeds.

Also Warwick.

I'm v surprised at York but not at all by Durham - the frat style rugby club initiations were all over the papers a couple of years ago. It was horrific. Warwick had issues ,too.

and Newcastle (which is very rah - or at least it was).

Yes, Newcastle has a surprisingly high number of privately educated students - nearly 25%.

A lot of them stay in Castle Leazes for their first year. It is the only halls that offer a catered option, and they have quite a few ex boarding school students there.

We went to visit Durham and found it scruffy to be honest - the castle and cathedral areas are pretty but thats true of many of the uk’s old towns and cities. The newer campuses are fine but could be anywhere. Leeds and Birmingham had far nicer campuses - each to their own!

@Xenia there are still super selectives in the north. Crossley Heath, North Halifax Grammar School and Heckmondwike Grammar School spring to mind. Heckmondwike may have a strong bias towards medical subjects at West Yorkshire based unis due to the demographics.

Durham is nowhere near on a par with Oxbridge @lieselotte. I don’t know who says such ridiculous things.

We are more or less at the start of our "which Unis" journey.

I went to Bristol decades ago and my 1st place toss up was with Exeter (who made an offer based on 4 A levels). I lived in the south east and my dad pointed out that I would probably be travelling by train if he couldn't do the round-trip drive in a day.

DD has lived in Bath all her life. It has great employability stats and an emphasis on 4 year with placements. If we didn't live here, I'd encourage her to apply here. Super sports facilities, but a really ugly campus and stupidly priced accommodation in the city centre.

Yes, we have looked at Exeter (we were in the area). I suspect that she would think Bristol is too close (even though we hardly ever go there).

As a swimmer, I think she will be swayed by sports facilities and proximity to the sea as much as a science lab.

I will be looking at job prospects.

@Madcats I think the "really ugly campus" must be in the eye of the beholder, my DC is at Bath and the beautiful campus was one of the reasons they went for it. Yes one or two ugly buildings but compact and surrounded by beautiful green spaces. Just finished their first year and couldn't be happier.

DD thought the York campus was really ugly. The green spaces are nice, but the hideous 1960s council flat looking buildings really didn't do it for her, but mainly she didn't want to be at a campus university anyway, and discounted Warwick and Lancaster for those reasons.

It’s horses for courses we thought the original York brutalist concrete architecture was beautiful!

I grew up in 1960s Croydon. As a result 1960s brutalist architecture is not my favourite.

It's a silly reason to discount a university though.

Just to add the new stuff (is that campus east I can never remember which is which) is all very nice but fairly bland but the 60’s buildings I feel had real thought and vision. They present education as modern and exciting - the space ship on the lake was quite literally taking people into a bright new world. To me they are fantastic planning creating a world where people could live, enjoy leisure and social activities and study - they are full of hope and a belief that dreams can be realised - just amazing!

That said we also love the Bailey in Durham which I guess is the polar opposite.

Life is full of silly reasons though - dd firmed Durham cos it was like Harry Potter (and insured York).

Poor Queen Mary - Always the bridesmaid... 😂. To be fair I have seen a lot of sneering about Kings too. Academic snobbery between those at the 'top' is pretty funny.

Don’t know much about QM myself - just reporting the definition as it commonly appears.

wasn’t aware kings was seen as not up to snuff.

Whilst those reports of Durham rugby initiations from 2020/21 were disgusting/degrading and should never ever be tolerated; there is no correlation between them and sexual assaults.