York, Durham, Exeter

[GodessOfThunder]

These universities seem feature in a disproportionate amount of discussion on Mumsnet as institutions commenters see as desirable for their DC to attend. Obviously they are well regarded universities, but why do they attract more discussion here than other Russell group universities, especially those in northern and midlands post-industrial cities such as Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham and Birmingham?

A few possible reasons were suggested by DH:

• They enjoy an undue level of perceived prestige due to being in smaller old cities/towns like Oxbridge
• The Mumsnet user base is skewed towards the SE and biased against post-industrial cities. Mumsnetters are less likely to be familiar with them and hold “grim up north” perceptions.
• There is a “showing off” factor in starting threads and commenting that DC has applied for, or attends, these institutions - the same goes for the “Oxbridge support” threads, the like of which you never see for red bricks.

Does anyone agree, or are there other explanatory factors?

DD has outright refused to even consider Durham, as she says it's full of privately educated kids from the SE, and has a disproportionately high rate of sexual abuse.

"The small city, not being northern or urban feeling and campus based might well appeal to those who want a student bubble and who are solid workers but not massively academically committed"

Love the absolute sweeping generalisation based on nothing.

Friends dcs at Manchester University are hardly living in a gritty urban melting pot. Lovely private student accommodation with en suites and pool tables. Socialising only with other students. They might see locals on a night out if they slum it on the bus.

She certainly doesn't sound very open minded. Is she sure university is for her? She night end up sharing a flat with students from the SE wherever she goes.

We live in the South east and DS is looking at unis now but DH and I have no idea about anything as we didn't go to uni ourselves.

We have no pre conceived ideas and have left it totally up to him to decide but his top two choices are currently Exeter and Durham.

I can only assume it's the school or his peers influencing his decision making.

She lives in the SE and goes to school with people from the SE right now. Of course all her current friends are drawn from that geographical group - but she wants her university experience to be more diverse, and not live in fear of being sexually abused, both of which I fully agree with.

https://www.palatinate.org.uk/durham-in-top-10-for-reported-accounts-of-sexual-violence-on-everyones-invited-website/

This makes interesting reading for young women trying to decide on a university.

I couldn't agree more. I was told that DD's degree wasn't worth the paper it was written on by a mumsnetter (1st class STEM degree from a lower ranking RG university), and I can see that some sneering has already occurred on this thread

Bristol gets a lot of mentions on MN, and I'm surprised that it wasn't in the first list. DD's university gets very few.

I find that if you post on threads where there are people with DC in the same cohort you get more variety, and a more balanced thread. I found the threads that had DD's cohort on very helpful and supportive.

Interesting that Durham, York and Exeter are in the top 5. Wonder why?

Does she really think she'll live in fear at Durham? Nothing wrong with trying to broaden your horizons and live in different parts of the country, although I'm willing to bet money on her ending up with a friendship group very similar to her current demographic.

I was using "live in fear" as a turn of phrase, not an actual description. Apologies if it was unclear. Yes, possibly she will end up with exactly the same friendship group, but I like it that she is trying to be more diverse, and I like it that she's taken the trouble to research the most popular unis and draw her own conclusions.

If they move into a shared house in, say, Rusholme they may well meet a few locals as said Mancunians are helping themselves to the students’ phones. It’s a tradition.

😄

Me too.

I don't think the Henrietta Barnett list is great as a representation as the demographic of that school is more likely to stay at home/close to home for university. First and second generation immigrant families might not have a culture of going away to university (and partying!), especially for daughters.
Apologies if this stereotypes - there are plenty of exceptions.

This thread is fascinating. Not in an entirely good way.

If we flipped this round and someone said "it's full of state educated kids from the north" how would you feel?
Please don't stereotype southern private school kids. They're not all Boris from Eton!

Sorry, that was to Zimunya (the reply function didn't work).

Before anyone jumps on me for stereotyping HB families but then saying don't stereotype private school kids...I can see that.

But HB data is online for ethnicity and there is a very clear preference in my experience to stay closer to home/in London.

@Trumporange - apologies if I've offended you - that was not my intention. As already stated, DD's current friendship group is nearly all SE private school girls. She loves them, but she strongly feels that where we live / where she goes to school is overwhelmingly WASP, and she wants her uni experience to be more diverse. I think that's admirable, but it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with privately educated SE kids. As @Maglin has stated, that will probably be where her friendship group ends up at uni anyway. Fine. I still think it's good that she is actively seeking a different experience.

I did at Manchester Grammar's destination of leavers but that is a private school. The interesting issue is which are the very very academic selective state schools in the North of England (where I am from) - are there any any more now grammar schools disappeared there in 1970? My children have a state educated cousin who went to Durham from a Yorkshire comprehensive.

In my day at Manchester if you were worried about boys attacking you (yes that problem has always been with us for women since the dawn of time) you coulod pick single sex girls' hals including one run by nuns my friend was at which had an early curfew and boys not allowed on the premises.

I don't really know what the main point people are making is - obviously we probably all agree Oxbridge are pretty good as is LSE and I expect people accept Durham, Bristol, Warwck have high entry levels for A level grades. There will be a pecking order which is not based on class but on academic issues and I gave my children's universities - Bristol, Nottingham, Reading.

I suppose the original poster was trying to say some Mumsnetters pick universities based on the class of students attending even if they are not very academically selective (bit like those private schools for chidlren who are intellectually challenged - yes they exist). That may well be so in some cases.

On the whole I think those universities where A level grades have to be high tend to be better ones and good ones to choose.

It’s nonsense though @xenia If a student is studying medicine or veterinary science at Nottingham how is that not prestigious? Why are we even talking like this? This is why so many of our dc are suffering with their mental health. Dc1 is at one of these places and he says it’s rife. There’s an epidemic of eating disorders amongst his female friends who have felt under pressure for years to be perfect. Mainly privately educated from the SE. With parents like this…

That does sound like a positive @Zimunya - part of what university is about i.e. to meet all sorts of different people. Apologies if I misunderstood what you meant.

My eldest DC is off to one of the universities mentioned. He didn't want to go to London for university and then carefully looked at all the rankings but particularly in terms of student satisfaction and future employability.

Also for us, we live in a place with two excellent universities within 45 mins so those were ruled out straight away.

He was pretty flexible about where to go and he literally tossed a coin to pick between his two favourites.

I actually found it fascinating how my pre-conceived ideas of which universities were prestigious had changed a lot since I went.

I do think people look more now at the specific course at the university rather than oooh I want to go to Durham or wherever.

MN is not representative of the real world as the average MN child has 10 9’s at GCSE and is confident of getting 4 x A star at A level - it is a skewed demographic.

I have a child at Manchester who has lived in the grottiest university accommodation where the majority of children came from very naice towns and a lot of them from private schools and a good chunk from the SE - they’ve all laughed about how non representative the cohort is.

I have a child just finished A levels who has firmed and insured 2 on the OP list - I am fairly confident their Uni cohort will be not dissimilar to that at Manchester because that is the typical cohort at RG universities.

Contextual offers will hopefully eventually achieve universities with student bodies which are more representative of society but there is some way to go.

MN is not representative of the real world as the average MN child has 10 9’s at GCSE and is confident of getting 4 x A star at A level - it is a skewed demographic

I agree. There is much more of a cross selection of abilities and demographic on the WIWIKAU Facebook page. There are a lot of posts from parents worrying about the cost of higher education and a lot about clearing.