York, Durham, Exeter

[GodessOfThunder]

These universities seem feature in a disproportionate amount of discussion on Mumsnet as institutions commenters see as desirable for their DC to attend. Obviously they are well regarded universities, but why do they attract more discussion here than other Russell group universities, especially those in northern and midlands post-industrial cities such as Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham and Birmingham?

A few possible reasons were suggested by DH:

• They enjoy an undue level of perceived prestige due to being in smaller old cities/towns like Oxbridge
• The Mumsnet user base is skewed towards the SE and biased against post-industrial cities. Mumsnetters are less likely to be familiar with them and hold “grim up north” perceptions.
• There is a “showing off” factor in starting threads and commenting that DC has applied for, or attends, these institutions - the same goes for the “Oxbridge support” threads, the like of which you never see for red bricks.

Does anyone agree, or are there other explanatory factors?

‘can't really afford to take those 3/4 years 'out' to go to university.’.

The football clubs won’t even allow you to do A levels. They’re only enabled to do day release to college once a week.

Universities are generally about new knowledge, not sentimentally looking to the past. They are also quite good at debunking nonsense Tory economic concepts such as “trickle down” as being ineffective.

Regarding Manchester it has a high private / grammar school intake. In my dc’s hall last year (incidentally the grottiest of Manchesters Halls) out of their flat if 8, 5 were privately educated and 1 was from a grammar. My dc laughs that Manchester is full of middle class southerners (themselves included). It does however have a fairly left leaning student body who are good at mobilising action (the current rent strikes as an example) but Inwould also argue that again this is borne out of a certain privilege. Based on the destinations of my younger dc’s year group Manchester is definitely “in” at the moment.

Regarding the reasons why my dc and their friends chose unis quite a few had sport as an important factor. Other reasons included how much they looked like Hogwarts, social life and the general vibe of the place and of course the course itself. Judging by the large numbers who are now in the north geography didn’t play a part in their decisions.

Manchester Uni is around 72% non-selective state, Keele nearer 84%. Their grammar intake, as a percentage, is not that different, less than a couple of percentage points difference. Manchester being slightly higher. Indie around 16% at Manchester v 6% at Keele.

as unis vary significantly in terms of undergrad numbers Manchester, plus Leeds, Nottingham, Bristol would all be in the top 10 in terms of absolute number of students from indies. Indeed take the top 15 which would then also include Birmingham and 50% of all undergrads from indies are accounted for. Take the next 15 which would include the likes, city wise, of Glasgow, Cardiff, Liverpool, Sheffield, Southampton and we reach 75%.

I taught a footballer with A levels (two A stars no less) and a degree (supported by Luton, as it goes) and there is definitely a Man U footballer with A levels and a footballer with a degree . I know it's rare. Some have been to the US on scholarships, especially female footballers.

Anyway, I didn't think we were talking about that elite a level re football which doesn't, unlike some sports have elite progression through university scholarships. There is a level of skilled and talented football player who is likely to choose eg Birmingham because it has excellent football facilities and a competitive structure(and sports science degrees) over eg York where you might get a kick about, and find yourself in teams way below your ability. There are excellent golfers at Birmingham too because of its golf management degree.

Other reasons included how much they looked like Hogwarts, social life and the general vibe of the place and of course the course itself.

Those were among DD's criteria. One reason why she hated the York campus with its brutalist 1960s architecture. Sorry @Piggywaspushed

It's not the prettiest!

Just found this about percentage of privately educated students
https://thetab.com/uk/2022/09/16/these-are-the-universities-with-the-most-private-school-students-2022-273947

Interestingly, Newcastle has the highest percentage in the north of England.

@RampantIvy i know Durham is south of the Tyne but I think we still need to accept that it is in the North (of England). 😁and has the largest percentage - followed certainly by Newcastle thereafter from a Northern perspective.

I absolutely love the York architecture - I am a massive fan of brutalist architecture- part of me was a little bit sad dd chose Hogwarts over concrete!

Okay I went to York and wouldn't have gone if I'd had to study on campus 🤣
The more Hogwarts settings I got definitely sold it to me.
17 year old me was so shallow ( I still am!)

Ben Davies of Spurs has an Economics degree from the OU. Some footballers do want a degree and it’s possible. Well done to him - in my view.

Yes I think he did, he was just amazed that the university relied on the local leisure centre pool

must be the only Russell group without a serious pool, no? Didn’t cross his mind to check

D'oh!

Of course you are right. What came over me?

must be the only Russell group without a serious pool, no?

I don't think they all have a pool.

Speaking of the Tab, this dates from quite a while back now. But given the thread title all three feature:

https://thetab.com/2014/04/04/which-game-of-thrones-character-is-your-uni-13411

@Delphigirl don't think Durham really consider swimming an elite sport tbh.

Rowing, Rugby, Hockey and Cricket are more their thing. They do have an indoor rowing tank so maybe that could be dual proposed as a swimming pool 😆😅

What the hell is an “elite sport” if swimming isn’t one?

Ben Davies of Spurs has an Economics degree from the OU
Yes well done Ben Davies. As my post specifically made clear, however, I was talking about footballers taking 3/4 years out and attending university; OU degrees do not fit this criterion.

don't think Durham really consider swimming an elite sport tbh.
As I said a few pages ago, Durham do not feature in the sports league tables for swimming, either men's or women's. No idea why, it seems a strange omission, but there you go.

@GodessOfThunder an elite sport is one in which a university invests heavily in their equipment, their training environment, their coaching teams and consequently attracts the best talent.

Durham do this for rugby, cricket and rowing. Some other universities probably do this for swimming.

So, if another university invests in swimming, darts or football these become “elite” sports at that university then?

Seems weird to use the word “elite”. Makes it sound like they are implying certain “posh”sports are superior to, say, snooker.

@GodessOfThunder I really can't be arsed to debate with you as you try to derail another thread into a class/status argument. I'll let you make your own mind up

From a quick google it seems any sport can be elite if performed at a certain level. So it’s not (as your comment re. swimming implied) that Durham don’t consider swimming an “elite” sport per se. It’s more that they have decided to put their eggs in other baskets.

I would argue that very little “elite”
sport takes place in British universities. Athletes at elite level aren’t at Durham university playing a bit of rugger on the weekend and getting ratarsed afterwards. They are in pro teams.

So much unnecessary hierarchical language…..

Ermmm...elite is a word used in sport and there most certainly are elite sportspeople at Loughborough and Bath.

used differently from how I outlined?