York, Durham, Exeter

[GodessOfThunder]

These universities seem feature in a disproportionate amount of discussion on Mumsnet as institutions commenters see as desirable for their DC to attend. Obviously they are well regarded universities, but why do they attract more discussion here than other Russell group universities, especially those in northern and midlands post-industrial cities such as Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham and Birmingham?

A few possible reasons were suggested by DH:

• They enjoy an undue level of perceived prestige due to being in smaller old cities/towns like Oxbridge
• The Mumsnet user base is skewed towards the SE and biased against post-industrial cities. Mumsnetters are less likely to be familiar with them and hold “grim up north” perceptions.
• There is a “showing off” factor in starting threads and commenting that DC has applied for, or attends, these institutions - the same goes for the “Oxbridge support” threads, the like of which you never see for red bricks.

Does anyone agree, or are there other explanatory factors?

But that isn't what York was like. No set meal times and no breakfast.

I'm sure not everywhere is/was like that, just going by what I've seen on here, people saying their DC has never made it to breakfast or doesn't like the food, or has sports or musical activities which clash with dinner etc. It's a luxury for some to be paying for meals they don't eat. Some unis are very flexible though, I know.

I have a DC eyeing up Oxford and if they were offered a college with no kitchen facilities that might be a deal breaker, because autonomy over what and when they eat is really important to them. Oxbridge halls but with kitchens too is their ideal scenario, you can choose whether you want canteen food and environment or beans on toast in front of the telly (or perhaps more likely in front of a textbook) as you go along.

“Rah” is a perjorative term. Rarely used by private school Dc about themselves. I think we can all agree “Chav” is not acceptable and our Dc should not use “rah” either. Just because students use it, doesn’t make it right. We are obsessed by students dividing themselves into labelled groups. It needs to stop. Parents need to take a lead much earlier. In every university, privately educated Dc are in a minority.

I do think ex boarders like catered. Not a dining card, but an actual dining room. It’s social and a bit more fun. Second year is the time for having home cooked food with flatmates. Before anyone says it, my DDs did cooking at school and DD2 has the Leiths Cert.

Luckily my DDs are not fussy. Would not ever have been a deal breaker for Oxford. That’s really a step too far! You rarely in life get all you want. Eating food others have prepared for a year is a luxury. How do
we end up with Dc who are so myopic and entitled?

Eating food others have prepared for a year is a luxury. How do we end up with Dc who are so myopic and entitled?

I think my DC would argue that it's not a luxury to have less choice about what and when you eat. I don't think that preferring to have flexibility is myopic or entitled. It's just a preference. Some undoubtedly prefer a dining hall with a menu and a set meal time.

I don't know for sure that no kitchen would be a deal breaker, I am just surmising. DC likes the look of the Oxford course but sees it as one of several good options, all with pros and cons. They are not so attached to it that they wouldn't weigh up all their priorities when deciding where to go.

“Rah” is a perjorative term. Rarely used by private school Dc about themselves.

You would hardly expect them to. That was why I stated that the students used this term, not me. Apparently it is quite common at most universities, not just Newcastle.

I think my DC would argue that it's not a luxury to have less choice about what and when you eat. I don't think that preferring to have flexibility is myopic or entitled.

I agree. DD likes to eat well and just loves cooking. She had a gap year before going to university and had plenty of time to hone her cooking skills, and as a vegetarian she wanted more variety than the token vegetarian options so often available.

She made these dumplings from scratch for her tea recently.

Bristol had a song sung by private school pupils apparently presumably sung when drunk getting the night bus back to Stoke Bishop catered halls - Wheels on a Bus go Rah Rah Rah. I have no idea if the song is any more complicated than just those lines - probably not. However I agree with the principle that chav, rah etc are not nice terms to use.

Lovely photos/cooking above. In most universities you live in halls in year 1, perhaps make friends there and then move out to live with them in years 2 and 3 in a privately rented house which will have a kitchen etc. However there are catered and non catered halls at most universities so most students end up with a choice even in year 1.

It’s fine to say “rah” though, and not “chav”, because to say “rah” is to punch up rather than down.

Ooh @RampantIvy those look sensational!

I'm not convinced @GodessOfThunder. It is usually used in a derogatory way. It certainly was on the Newfess Facebook page (which has since been taken down).

Thank you @Xenia and @SoTedious. DD was a nightmare to feed when she was little as she was so uninterested in eating. I "force fed" her on TV cookery shows from a young age and she slowly developed a love of food and cooking.

I am so proud that she is such a good cook. At Christmas I did the prep on Christmas eve and she cooked the entire Christmas lunch while I relaxed over a glass or two of wine.

Similar to the tern SPOD, I'd never heard anyone use the term Rah before I went to university, and I've never heard either used since I left.

I'm also not aware of either term being in ubiquitous use across universities - my assumption was that it was the purview of Oxbridge, Durham, Bristol, and others with a high degree of students from public schools

I think it is a slightly old term now. I can hardly keep up with student jargon and sometimes the conversations are hard to follow. Some words seem to have the opposite meaning of what I think. i have just about gathered "cool"'s meaning from the 1960s...... i.e. not that something is cold.

I had to google SPOD as I have never heard of it before. I had never heard of rah before DD went to university. I think it is just a student thing.

DD has several provately educated friends. She doesn't choose friends based on where they were educated.

Interestingly the worst flatmate she had in halls was a young man from a very rich family. He came from overseas and had no idea how to shop for food or cook because at home they had servants to do this for them. I think it was pretty unfair of his family not to prep him for looking after himself TBH.

Same here @RampantIvy the majority of my long-time friend group are those who I met at Durham, the majority of whom went to independent school with a couple who went to top end public schools.

None of them were ever labelled Rahs whilst in college.

Rahs were those who displayed their background ostentatiously - in my time they drove Golfs (when most didn't have a car), wore Barbours and pearls, and started conversations with classic ice breakers as "Which school did you go" or "Where do your family ski"

Being catered for isn't a luxury if the catering doesn't meet your needs, is it?

There are all sorts of reasons DCs might prefer to make their own arrangements – for example, one of mine is a sportsman and requires a special diet, and another has Type I diabetes so would prefer to be in a position to decide her own food based on blood-sugar readings at the time. Nothing entitled about either of them, they prefer flexibility.

Eating food others have prepared for a year is a luxury. How do we end up with Dc who are so myopic and entitled

It's not a luxury if you're paying an extra one to two thousand a year for it.

It's also not a luxury if you do sport or have other commitments that clash with meal times and your hall won't do packed lunches.

Dd is at private school and often calls people Rahs. It's a particular type of private school teen.

@Maglin Do you honestly think, in principle, names should be hurled at any Dc? Would your dd like names hurled at her? I’m sure she would not. Dc might not warm to people but they are at university together. So surely better to grow up snd stop the name calling? Would she do this with a privately educated “rah” doctor? Or would she just accept them for who they are? Just because Dc pick up name calling at uni @RampantIvy it doesn’t make it right.

Its still wonderful to have food cooked for you! In my world anyway. As DD2 did Leiths, I can assure you cooking is pretty good in this house when she’s around. She won a prize for her Christmas cake decoration at school and her scallops are the best! Not to mention her pavlova!

It’s fine to say “rah” though, and not “chav”, because to say “rah” is to punch up rather than down.

No it isn't. It is decisive and crass.

Uni should be an opportunity to mix with a wide variety of people from different backgrounds. Not to punch up or down with the inbuilt feeling of superiority about where you perceive yourself to be.

I suspect those taking umbrage at the term Rah have never actually been in a setting where it's used.

No one in my day deemed it to be an insult - it was just a label for a certain group of people, similar to spod or nerd for those who spent a lot of time in the library, or jock for those who did a lot of sport.

Agree. A major factor for DS is not going a large city, having grown up in London. I'd really like him to look at z Manchester but he's not keen 🤷

But we've moved on, haven't we? Plenty of things which weren't seen as derogatory or offensive 'in my day', now are, so we no longer use those terms, right? It's called progress.

Any terms which attempts to encapsulate and define a person in a single word are very, very rarely complimentary. So maybe it's just better not to use them.

@TizerorFizz I never said it was OK. Please read my post of 12.40. DD had several privately educated friends at university. She doesn't judge people's educational background, and neither do I. I judge people who think they are superior regardless of where they were educated. So please don't tar me with the same brush as the students who use this term.

@WobblyLondoner and that is why DD chose a city university as we live rurally with hourly trains to the nearest city. She really didn't like Warwick, York or Lancaster because she felt that they were in an isolated bubble. Newcastle suited her because it is compact and she could go to gigs, eat out, go to parties etc without leaving early for the last train home.

But we’re back to the original point if the thread. The status Unis everyone ( on MN) wants to get into, have way more privately education students than other. Pretty much in order of popularity actually. Unis are being chosen so that students stay in environments they are used to.
Maybe quite telling that Xenia posted about a Bristol college where 70% were privately educated. And then anecdotally from other posters that Bristol is losing applications because of contextual offers. I mean not getting in doesn’t put of people applying to Oxbridge so why should it put people off Bristol.

I don’t think students don’t apply to
Bristol overall. Only certain mn ones who move in similar circles! Still popular here in the sticks! Bristol was seen to be where privately educated Dc like to go. Not vastly different to them wanting to go to Durham and Exeter. It has halls of residence. Not colleges. I really do think students like to go where they are happy and feel they will find friends.

However it’s unrealistic to expect a Tory voting type will want to be mates with a left wing socialist. Many keep
their own council and sit in the middle. They are neither campaigning nor entitled.

Cities have different vibes and so do universities. I cannot see how that’s wrong and nothing wrong with it allowing choice either. It’s just better to avoid conflict by parents saying find your own friends and don’t engage with others if you don’t want to. Avoid name calling. Dc at 18 are not all mature. Also why does anyone care if a small minority group seem entitled? How does it affect anyone else? Everyone else is the majority! I always told DDs to leave them to it. Don’t engage with people you don’t like. I imagine judgy students will find their tribe too but there is a need to try and mix. Work might not put you with your tribe!