York, Durham, Exeter

[GodessOfThunder]

These universities seem feature in a disproportionate amount of discussion on Mumsnet as institutions commenters see as desirable for their DC to attend. Obviously they are well regarded universities, but why do they attract more discussion here than other Russell group universities, especially those in northern and midlands post-industrial cities such as Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham and Birmingham?

A few possible reasons were suggested by DH:

• They enjoy an undue level of perceived prestige due to being in smaller old cities/towns like Oxbridge
• The Mumsnet user base is skewed towards the SE and biased against post-industrial cities. Mumsnetters are less likely to be familiar with them and hold “grim up north” perceptions.
• There is a “showing off” factor in starting threads and commenting that DC has applied for, or attends, these institutions - the same goes for the “Oxbridge support” threads, the like of which you never see for red bricks.

Does anyone agree, or are there other explanatory factors?

I think mid Bucks is probably around Aylesbury etc. How would you know if you don't live there! It's a very different demographic to GX/Amersham/Chesham Bois etc. and the destination Unis are probably quite different there too.

Just to clarify also that it wasn't that the Bristol offers didn't come through in this year's cohort. Maybe they would have done. More that they didn't apply there in the first place. It seems that Bristol used to be a staple as a fallback for Oxbridge/Durham but that's changed a bit, at least in our school.

@Chipirones , it may be that the grammar schools already knew it was a wasted place on the ucas form, I'm in the Surrey private school system and they don't encourage Bristol because of the rejection rate but if a student is keen of course they can apply.

Bristol does seem to be less popular this year in terms of applying - my dc said everyone seems to want to go to Manchester atm (obv that’s anecdotally). Neither SWBGS or GMS have ever qualified for Bristols state school contextual thing.

Yes Manchester deffo very 'in' with the dds friends.

@tennissquare i don’t know anyone who applied who wasn’t offered Bristol this year.

@KittyMcKitty I wouldn't expect Borlase's to qualify for contextual ever as a grammar and Marlow is also an affluent area. Saying that, Surrey is very affluent and in previous years some very leafy Surrey comps have surprisingly featured on Bristol's contextual list. It does seem somewhat arbitrary.

@Chipirones the one that has always confused me is that Henley College qualifies for it?

Im certainly not suggesting that any Marlow schools should be included on the list.

Although one would expect GMS to be on the list as an Upper School.

Just to be clear: geographically mid Bucks sits between north and south bucks. I hate to break it to you but the District councils have been abolished. There used to be Aylesbury Vale and Wycombe. There’s never been a “North Bucks” council area. Plus it’s interesting the south has no idea about the frozen north of the county!

@TizerorFizz I genuinely have no idea what your issue is about this - I asked the question nicely.

I am not Bucks born and bred - we moved here pre kids for work but both children were born in Wycombe and state educated at their catchment schools. FWIW if we are playing Frozen North top trumps I possibly win being from Barnsley. Anyway as you were …

Jeez! Just use common sense about the term mid. It means the middle area of the county! Who was talking about Yorkshire?

Which isn’t that far North - is it.

Just to say, bristol used to offer pupils at Amersham school contextual offers. That was 6 years ago, maybe it doesnt any more as the school has improved significantly in the past few years.

Yes I think the Amersham School and the Misbourne still qualify for contextual for Bristol @thing47.

Surprisingly Esher 6th Form College in leafy Surrey was on the Bristol contextual list until a couple of years ago. Not anymore though.

I remember a UCAS talk at my oldest child's fee paying school about nearly 20 years ago when parents were concerned if you paid fees Bristol would reject you although the school said it was not quite as bad as that yet. My sons went 13 years after that and did get places despite being at a fee paying school - in fact I think the hall one of mine chose (Churchill) had more people from fee paying schools of any hall in the country he said at one point. This is a bit old now, though https://thetab.com/uk/bristol/2015/03/25/churchill-officially-poshest-halls-residence-15211

Anyway Bristol has tried very hard with its contextual offers. Mine had a lovely time there and are really glad they went and made friends for life. I don't think anyone who is going to get reasonably high grades should put it off their list.

For those with money concerns Oxbridge is often cheapest in the country because of very short terms, living in college often all 3 years and cheaper college rent. We are in outer London so my 5 avoided London and London has some really good universities like LSE but the university experience in my view is very different so is not to the taste of everyone.

The statistics on where the state grammars in the SE send children are interesting - I think I started that with my post about Destinations of Leavers of Henrietta B. Generally schools that have a list with exact numbers and names of universities in both state and private sector tend to be the better (academically) schools. Those that don't tell you on their website have less about which to show off .

I wonder if there is a correlation that catered halls attract the highest percentage of privately educated/boarding school educated students?

The only catered halls at Newcastle also have more "rahs" (a term used by the students themselves, so please don't flame me) than any other halls.

Parents who attended more higher ranking unis 30+ years ago tended to have the catered experience as most halls at those unis were catered. Having fond memories of catered accommodation and the benefits socially of eating together, Perhaps those families encourage their children in that direction. Plus, yes it costs more, but not necessarily that much more if you avoid en-suite bathrooms etc.

All of the Nottingham on campus halls are still catered. Birmingham has some (meal plan not necessarily eating where you live) and York, Exeter have a decent amount. Most of Durham is still catered. For those who want catered, Warwick can be off-putting as no catered.

Living in a flat of 6-12 (whatever the size happens to be) is a different experience to being in a hall or college of hundreds and having the communal eating experience. I guess it is more boarding school like, but most won’t have boarded, but like that transition for a year of not worrying about food and easy socialising.

Perhaos more students are more insular and less communally minded now?? The desire of some to avoid bathroom sharing at all costs, to be able to fully control what they eat and when and to want to take their meal into their bedroom, and to limit who they mix with…..I think it’s different to how things were before, but then I suppose those options weren’t there. I’m sure students from all backgrounds want these things, but I wonder if those who are less confident or feel more co corned about who the ‘others’ at uni will be, might want more opportunities to shut themselves away? I might be barking up the totally wrong tree though.

I think you make some very valid points @WombatChocolate. When my sister went to university I think all, if not most, halls were catered. She was at Ranmoor in Sheffield, and the food was terrible

I think the idea of walking into a refectory (as they were called back in the day) where there are hundreds of students is very daunting if you are very timid.

DD's flat had a large social space and most of the students actually ate in the shared kitchen, and DD often used to cook with another girl and have shared meals. Flat sharing is such a lottery though and sharing with messy students is a nightmare, so it is swings and roundabouts.

DD is vegetarian, and an excellent cook. She absolutely did not want catered, and discounted Nottingham for that reason.

DD's flat-share wasn't great as many wouldn't pull their weight with cleaning. Then plans for a Second Year house fell through (mixed blessing) and she'll be in a private room in an HMO next year with an en-suite. That actually suits her fine but it's horses for courses!

Back in my day, York was never catered in the sense that one might be imagining. It was basically like a school canteen. I don't ever remember even eating anything other than soup and pot noodles so I don't think I used it! Pretty sure we had to pay. The proper old fashioned (even then!) catered hall at York has disappeared - it wasn't one of the colleges. It was, iirc, 80% male!

Interestingly, one of the colleges that is now catered is the one that always had the reputation for having all the wealthy students - even though officially colleges allocations were random.

I think Loughborough has some catered halls, too and Bath has a meal plan type thing like Birmigham's. Campus unis tend to have the existing building design to support this.

@Piggywaspushed re York was never catered in the sense that one might be imagining. It was basically like a school canteen

That's exactly how my college and all the other hill colleges were at Durham in the early 90s.

Queue up, take your meal card from the board, pass through the servery and choose your meal, and then sit down in the big dining hall.

The only exception was formal dinners which happened 3 times a term, where the meal you would have queued for was served to you instead.

Self-catering plus groceries is cheaper than catered I think, or it can be if that's what you want. Plus it gives you the freedom to eat what you want when you want it, and to manage your budget without a chunk of it missing.

Catered is a big risk for those with tight budgets who don't know until they get there whether their life will fit around mealtimes and what the food is like. If you have enough money to feed yourself if you don't like what's on offer or if you miss a meal, it's good to have that extra social activity of communal eating available if that's your preference. (Also good for DC who can't cook at all and don't want to learn or can't, for various reasons.)

I think back in the day catered was just like a school canteen. The catered option at Newcastle had set meal times and a couple of DD's friends used to have to dash off after late lectures to get an evening meal, and apparently the food wasn't great.

It must be difficult if you have a job or are a member of a sports team to fit those around rigid meal times.

And how many students actually get up in time for breakfast?