Advice for son who has just failed 3rd year at University

[Figleaf]

I posted this on Parenting and someone suggested I move it here (didn't know this section existed) .

My son has just failed his re sit exam year ie he failed last academic year but they let him bank his great project and lab results and redo only the exams this year. He failed all but 1 of the 4 re sits today. They say he can have an ordinary degree in Engineering just not an honours degree in Aerospace systems he had been reading.

My son hated remote learning which he did from semester 2 of Y1 , all the way through Y2 and into semester 1 of Y3. During brief periods at University he did well in projects or in Labs.

Not sure what advice to give him. We are British but living/working in America, he is is Glasgow. Really at a loss how to parent on this one.

Is there anyway he can redo the year or gain entry into another university to complete another year or two for aerospace systems. Surely there will be some guidance or help offered by the university?

Or alternatively he could try and get an entry level engineering job and then perhaps focus on doing a masters in aerospace?

I think the best way to support him at the moment is making him feel as if this isn't the end and certainly wasn't his fault. COVID affected all of us in many ways and especially those in education. He will still have many options. Good luck.

What does your son want to do? Does he want/need the aerospace systems qualification or is he happy to accept the engineering degree? Is there an option for him to resit a year/2 years to get the degree he wants at another university? Does he still have options for employment or apprenticeship type roles?

My husband failed his final year of undergraduate study. His family sent him to live with his sister while he worked and evaluated options. He was able to get into a different university for the final 2 years to get the degree he wanted. He thought failing uni was disastrous but the bonus of his unplanned gap year was that he met me during it and we're now happily married with kids. He got employment straight after graduating and got his masters a couple of years ago.

Just let him accept his Ordinary degree and get a job. If he wants to return and do something else at a later date he can.

He is an adult now and able to make his own life decisions. I say this as someone who did exactly as your DS did. With hindsight my first degree was just the wrong one for me. I went on in later life to do a degree much better suited to me as by then I knew what my strengths were.

What advice exactly are you after? Is your DS okay about it? I know I felt nothing but relief at being finished and able to move on.

What does he want to do?

Given his excellent results in anything that looks like work, I would say accept the ordinary degree and get a job in an engineering concern. It might not be the job he would get with an honours degree, but anything with some form of training attached would be good. Agree with the idea of working towards a masters with his employer.

Does he need to do another year to get his ordinary degree?

He could go down the ordinary degree route and if he finds his feet top it up to an honours degree elsewhere. One of my DCs friends is doing this (although because she wants to change direction not because of failure). She's doing this with the OU which might not suit your son.

In my day, if you had great year 3 results you could still return to honours although it was rare. Not sure if that is still a possibility particularly if he has 3 failed courses.

Alternatively, would one of the other Glasgow unis let your son start from year 2 again. I know Glasgow, Strathclyde and West of Scotland all do aerospace engineering (plus slightly further away Heriot Watt). My DC have friends who switched unis successfully.

let him know that there are loads of options.if he really wants the honours degree it's important to check why he's failing written tests. Has the academic component of the course been too challenging or does he lack study techniques or panic under exam conditions? If he can identify what caused that repeated failure he can target it and get the help he needs.

As PPs said, he also needs to know there are LOADS of ways to succeed in life. Remind him of all the multi-millionaire tech geniuses that rule the world and were all uni drop outs. Same with loads of famous authors. A degree is only one way to achieve. He could start in an engineering firm and work his way up, maybe completing a degree later in life. Or he may want to take a break and reassess his career path. He is young and clearly good at lab work.

Lockdown had a massive impact on how his generation have been taught. Uni has been a hugely reduced experience for so many of them. Remind him that life is long and he can do whatever he wants and take his time to find his way. No one gets through life without a few colossal failures along the way.

There should be a student support centre and he should get advice from them regarding whether they think he has any grounds for mitigating circumstances or whether he can somehow retake the year (if that’s what he wants). Otherwise I guess it’s good he has an ordinary degree and he will have to start applying for jobs.

He will still be eligible for a Masters and even a PhD if he wants. Perhaps in a different subject as he clearly isn’t enjoying Aerospace. Let him accept the ordinary degree and look for a job while he considers his options. He can go back to university when he’s ready.

Do most Masters not want a 2:1?

IME most MSc do want a 2:1 at BSc level, yes.

Take the degree, get a job

Theres no use flogging a dead horse, he’s clearly had a terrible time and thinking about further study at this point is pointless. He can come back to it later.

Is he entitled to work in the US? A complete change of scene might be good for him, and the difference between an “ordinary” degree and “honours” might not be so significant (ie they may not know the difference)

Let him move on. He can redo it when he's older if he wants. I left University with a Foundation Degree having been the only woman on the 3rd year and it sucked.

So I left, took my Foundation Degree and got a job. I re did my 3rd year when I was 35. And I am currently doing a Masters (although they didn't actually need my 3rd year to get accepted which still confuses me!)

How about looking for an apprenticeship at an aerospace firm? Since he is so good at the practical stuff, I am sure they would snap him up. Apprenticeships are no longer what they were in the past; employers are taking them on at every level up to and including graduates, and in a much wider range of fields. It sounds as though this might be a good fit for him.

I’ve just googled the names of two massive aerospace firms in Bristol and both are offering apprenticeships.

I agree he should take the degree and move on. If he's failed the same set of exams twice I'm not sure there is any point keep appealing and treading the same miserable stretch of water. This actually happened to me - different circumstances but another Scottish uni - and ultimately I was just fed up of studying and had mentally moved on. Once he's got work experience in his chosen field, whether he has a general degree or an Hons degree doesn't really matter. It never held me back.

Definitely look at apprenticeships.

This pretty much happened to me. I gave it a couple of years and did a masters. Got a distinction. A hons isn't as important as you think. Take the degree and let him have some time. I was just too young and immature. I was only 17 when I started. He will find his way.

What about doing an aerospace degree apprenticeship with BAE systems, if planes are a passion?

https://www.baesystems.com/en/careers/careers-in-the-uk/apprenticeships/degree

Earn whilst you learn and more practically oriented.

why? Why has he failed? Struggled with the course? Or personal issues that made it difficult for him?

You can only help him if you know “why”

and “hating remote learning” is not going to be the cause behind a third year failure

I don’t know much about degree apprenticeships but perhaps he could carry over credit from his degree. The UK needs to get more flexible, in US for eg students earn credits and can move between courses and universities more easily taking their credits with them. They have had reduced teaching I’ve been appalled how little contact time my son has had (also 3rd year) and he’s had a mix of grades. Online has meant he hasn’t got to know tutors and it isn’t easy to ask for or get help. He also probably picked the wrong course. I’ve been researching conversion courses (1 year diplomas) aimed at those who want to change direction. They are common in law for students who didn’t do a law degree but I’ve found also exist for other subjects. After a year you would have the equivalent of a degree and be able either to get a job in that field or do a Masters. You can do some parttime or online. Probably worth looking at State colleges in US as you are there and whether they would accept his degree as credits. Over there they usually do 4 years and specialise later so 1st year is more like A level, 2nd year like our first year etc. Obviously the big name unis are big bucks but there will be local state unis. My son is taking a year off to work and travel and then we will see what direction he goes. From what I’ve seen few of his peers have jobs and many don’t seem ready for the next step which as half their uni experience was a write off isn’t that surprising. I feel he still has some growing up to do.

These advice points have all been great - thank you. We jotted a list down (including the really useful link about apprenticeships Outwiththeoutcrowd) so we can give him a few starting points. You have all really helped, thankyou.

But don't all universities require a 2:1 or at least a 2:2 to get on a masters program?

This also happened to me. Also in the sciences. It just wasn't the right course for me. I took the ordinary BSc. Worked for a couple of years in an unrelated office job then went on to do a postgraduate qualification (and gained distinction). I've gone on to a successful career. I don't think anyone other than my friends from way back then even knows, as it's just not relevant. The only time it even crosses my mind is when filling in job ads but in my field mostly they just ask for name of degree and not the class. Not once has anyone come back and asked for it. And once you are older than early 20s no one ever asks in conversation. I have submitted copies of degree certificate for some.

It may feel like it for a while but it's absolutely not the end of the world and he should draw a line under it and move on.

@Figleaf I would not raise his hopes re apprenticeships with BAE systems. They are ultra competitive. I personally think that’s clutching at straws. So is a Masters at the moment. He’s essentially not in the running for graduate engineer employment.

Is he joining you in the USA? I would have a chat about jobs. He can apply for any job he wants but MEng and BEng holders will be ahead of him. It’s unlikely firms won’t want a few more details about his degree and might want references. Do not lie. Engineering exams are not written essays. He’s just not able to do part of the course. He’s now had two attempts so it’s not for him. Personally I think engineering should be ruled out because he’s not good enough and why would he want to pursue this further? Sounds like punishment. Even more exams to qualify in the future. Why not look at other jobs? Is he on his own looking in the uk? Get registered at technical agencies where jobs don’t require a good degree.

Was this a Scottish 4 year degree? Or 3 year standard BEng as in the rest of the uk? Or is he part way through the MEng?