Advice for son who has just failed 3rd year at University

[Figleaf]

I posted this on Parenting and someone suggested I move it here (didn't know this section existed) .

My son has just failed his re sit exam year ie he failed last academic year but they let him bank his great project and lab results and redo only the exams this year. He failed all but 1 of the 4 re sits today. They say he can have an ordinary degree in Engineering just not an honours degree in Aerospace systems he had been reading.

My son hated remote learning which he did from semester 2 of Y1 , all the way through Y2 and into semester 1 of Y3. During brief periods at University he did well in projects or in Labs.

Not sure what advice to give him. We are British but living/working in America, he is is Glasgow. Really at a loss how to parent on this one.

At the end of my second year, which was a disaster, I was downgraded from an hons course to ordinary as 'it would be less pressure'. Given that wasn't worth the paper it was written on, I left. I did HNC with an exemption from the first year, and then professional exams in chemistry with the RSC. The pass mark was at the level of 1st or 2nd class honours, and I passed, even though it was the week after my fil's funeral.

All is not lost. Some people do better at studying and working at the same time. I was obviously one of them.

He won't get onto a Masters with an ordinary degree. He might in a few years, with relevant work experience, but not now.

Resitting the entire year is risky - the (I assume 60 credits) of decent marks gained would be lost, and to be honest without any insight as to what has gone wrong, he'll repeat the same mistakes a third time and still not have been able to move on. Exam revision shouldn't have been affected by remote learning, and presumably he's been able to access resources to help him revise for the resits easily this year, and has still failed.

I don't know what the apprenticeship rules are in Scotland, but in England he wouldn't be able to do a degree apprenticeship in the same subject as the degree he already has.

I'd stress though that there's no need right now to decide on his future career. A couple of years working, saving money, maybe travelling, teaching English in Japan, anything to keep busy and active so he doesn't just sink into despair.

The sensible thing would be to make a list of three or four different types of work environment he might fancy (hospitality, office, healthcare, technical, environmental?) and try and get some temp work in those areas for the next few years to see how he finds them. Then using that experience to focus on what he's like to do.

But he needs to be busy!

You sound like such a lovely mother. I will however put this out there as no one else has which is just… take a breath and check with yourself whether your son wants your advise and notes and research right now or just your support and love whilst he does his own research and finds his own path?

I’m not saying the help and research one is the wrong one! But just many young people would find that level of help from their mum to be a bit… overbearing? Interfering?

My husband had a similar setback in his youth (we were already together then), and his mum similarly came out with lists of fully researched ideas, alternate colleges he could go to etc and i must say… it went down like a cup of cold sick. He did not feel supported, he felt pressured, and didn’t speak to her for months.

Only you know your son but i wouldn’t want this piece of advice to go unsuggested.

@Figleaf This might be too complex for him to sort out alone.

I have just had a look at the Engineering Council. As I understand it, you say he could accept an Ordinary degree. I cannot see that any ordinary degree is accepted by the EC as being a recognised course for graduate engineer training. You cannot be registered to continue training without doing a recognised course. The Hons is important. Even with BEng Hons, because it’s not an integrated masters, he would need to do further education. This, as we have established looks difficult.

If he wants to stay in engineering as a professionally qualified engineer at a level below Chartered Engineer, I suggest you contact the Engineering Council about what he should aim for. Where will this degree take him? Could he be a technician and work up? What type of job should he aim for?

Engineers are not qualified by degree alone. Any more than lawyers are. Plus, whether anyone agrees or not, professional engineers are required to show competence in communication in order to qualify. This might well be writing reports. Professional Engineers might need assistance with communication but you can only expect so much latitude from employers.

Apprentice schemes with big employers are very competitive. I do think he needs input from you to navigate all of this.

It is a tall order for DS to research all this himself. Obviously don’t bother if he wants to forget engineering!

He is an adult! With (i assume) access to the internet, professionals at uni and a network of peers to access for information. He is infinitely better placed to work out the best plan for his own life than his poor worried mum who is overseas. I have kids myself, i totally get the desire to help and protect but in their 20s they really need to work out their own life plans.

Re the American system and you already being there....I suppose there could be an option for him to apply to complete an Eng degree in the US, as his ordinary degree modules should probably transfer as credits? But maybe the difficulty would be the Gen Ed stuff. Might have to take and pass English, PE etc. And I take it that many American universities embraced fully online classes earlier than they did here in the UK, and there may not be as many face to face lectures as there used to be.

@KingsHeath53 you make some good points from experience, thank you. Tough line to walk , don't want to follow your MIL and swamp him but don't want despair (and suicide risk) to set in either. I so wish he'd taken his excellent entry grades and done an easier degree - he had 5 unconditional offers :-(

@RyvitaBrevis not sure how long a visa application would take if he did want to come here. May be a bit of a longer term option. When we came in 2020 the company did everything but that wont be on offer 3 years later.

@TizerorFizz and @titchy I really appreciate the research, knowledge and pointers you've shared. It is good to know those things thank you both.

@newtb Another positive story, thanks for sharing. I'm up now as unable to sleep for worrying about him. Your positive story is a real lift :-)

Any other contributor who I didn't specifically mention, I have appreciated your range of views. It has given me lots to think about - thanks all.

but don't want despair (and suicide risk) to set in either.

suicide risk. Is he?

on the basis of your posts, how remote he feels, my priority would be to get over to him ASAP come what may. He needs the physical presence and support of a parent

So as each day passes, he’s alone in a house share with fellow students who have likely all completed their third year… what is he doing all day?

OP his future career plans should be set aside in the immediate term and being with him and sorting out practical matters such as living arrangements and what’s going to happen over the summer etc is a priority

@HandsupSue Thanks for your concern but I think what I wrote sounded more dramatic than I meant. I was really just agreeing with KingsHealth53 that if I'm not careful I will swamp him but I also don't want to just 'leave him to it' as I know with all young people its aways a risk that they don't have mental resources (a longer life tends to bless us with) to deal with a crisis and sadly this leads a few to consider hurting themselves. I was recently at a course run by a Mum over here whose 15y.o son took his own life. She said approach the subject head on , don't fanny about on the margins so that's what we did today. Apart from being a bit tearful he did seem practical not suicidal ie has questions in with his tutor and some student support body. We were reassured. I might go over or he might come here for a holiday, he's just deciding what'd be most help to him at the moment. He lives with 2 other boys. One is graduating this year and one was never a student. His brother (our oldest son) is only 30 mins away too. We currently pay for his flat and have no plans to change that so Summer accommodation is not a problem. If he wants to go home and live with his brother in the family home (he won't want to do this) that's also not a problem as we also pay for that too. Being hungry or homeless are not problems for him I'm certain, just need to help him find a new direction without smothering him.

@Figleaf We have always done a bit of research together as a family. We can discuss things without DDs being overwhelmed. DD2 had to change career direction. It took a long time to finally decide which way to go. It’s not an easy discussion when someone is clearly not thriving. My DD was a bit older but none the less, we didn’t shy away from a tough conversation.

What we did, @Figleaf was pay for a diploma course in an allied career. DD had a degree in a fashion related field. She changed to interior design and is now happy with her job. It cost us a lot at a prestigious London college. If you have the money, maybe look at allied courses? Although DDs course was a diploma, below degree level, but she very employable.

Other skills he might like to investigate are digital skills and anything where there are shortages in the uk. Dd is a whizz at CAD. Plus other programs. You could also look at a Morrisby test. That might identify alternative careers. DD2 did not even consider interior design at 18. Sometimes maturity informs choices. Someone with a degree in her field of work does not earn more. It’s very skills based and dd has them. We just didn’t know at 18!

So he’s financially ok

but op… how is he going to while away his days other than focussing on this? And feeling like a failure

each to their own. But I’d be on a plane over to my son if he didn’t want to get on one to the US. By the end of the week

I think I probably would come over too. Look through options together.

Thanks to you both @TizerorFizz and @HandsupSue for those thoughts. We are talking again tomorrow with the results of the meetings he's had at University.

Has he been to the Glasgow careers service? The one at my university is really good with people who do not get what they want and can be used for 2 years after they leave. His may know of all the small local companies and start-ups who are much better at spotting talent than the milk round mega companies.

Don't pressure him to try again. It is deadly repeating years and people lose pizzazz very quick when they do so because they think they have done it all before and stop attending and therein lies disaster.

He won't get on an MSc or MEng at this stage and he won't find a PhD supervisor willing to take him on even if you fund him.

Let him decide and don't go to any meetings with tutors with him. He must make the decisions with his own life. You be there to love him and to encourage him to take any employment that will give him structure to his life. Gaps in a cv never look good.

@Calcite thanks. He has asked for an appointment with Careers yes. Thank you, your advice is helpful.

shame you couldn’t have attended these meetings with him.
OP, if you can take the time off work or you don’t work andYou can afford to - I’d urge you to get over here. He is young, alone and feeling very lost

Thank you again @HandsupSue for that suggestion. This is not what my son wants just now. Trying to go at his pace so probably no need suggesting that again to me but thank you.

I will bow out

Usually but not necessarily, if you also have some relevant work-related experience in the interim. Applications are considered on their individual merits.

He’s at least 21 or 22 FFS, he should be capable of having meetings with his faculty staff without needing his mother holding his hand. That’s not to say a parental visit to lift his spirits wouldn’t be a good thing in general if feasible, but the teaching contract is/was between the university and him, not his parents, so they’d take minimal notice of any parental interference and focus on what he said in any event.

Clearly he is capable and he’s done so

but the op has said he’s really missed family

And he’s going through a shit time

so you don’t think that even when you child is “capable” of something, they might benefit from you being there?

or no… I’m guessing you’re one for. Come on, you’re 21, an adult. You clocked up. You sort.

so they’d take minimal notice of any parental interference and focus on what he said in any event..

too right.

hence me not even remotely saying that

I think the main thing to unpick is whether this is really disappointing to him because he had his heart set on an aerospace/ engineering career or because he feels that he has disappointed you and worries you think he's screwed up.

My family were all quite high flying, I wasn't and wasn't bothered but the worst bit was telling my family when I didn't do well in something as they'd try and make it better instead of accepting it.

Once he's figured out whether to accept the degree (although I don't see much other option) maybe some time out doing any job would be useful so he can decide what he actually wants to do career wise (and where he wants to live).