Advice for son who has just failed 3rd year at University

[Figleaf]

I posted this on Parenting and someone suggested I move it here (didn't know this section existed) .

My son has just failed his re sit exam year ie he failed last academic year but they let him bank his great project and lab results and redo only the exams this year. He failed all but 1 of the 4 re sits today. They say he can have an ordinary degree in Engineering just not an honours degree in Aerospace systems he had been reading.

My son hated remote learning which he did from semester 2 of Y1 , all the way through Y2 and into semester 1 of Y3. During brief periods at University he did well in projects or in Labs.

Not sure what advice to give him. We are British but living/working in America, he is is Glasgow. Really at a loss how to parent on this one.

Not if you have relevant work experience. Admission is at the course leader’s discretion, if they think you can pass the course they can admit you.

One other point, if your DS is planning to work in England, many employers don't understand the Scottish degree classifications anyway, so they may not even realise he basically flunked out! I'm guessing he was studying for the 4-year MSc (Hons) Aerospace Systems and what he'll get is a MSc General (Engineering). It wouldn't be a lie though to write on his CV 'University of Glasgow 2019-2023 MSc Engineering' and underneath he could list the courses/areas of study he specialised in (i.e. Aerospace systems). Chances are no one will query it! They never did with me.

Has he been checked for ADHD/dyslexia? Student support can sometimes refer for this.

@maranella is spot on. If he works in England, he'll just have a Glasgow engineering degree to most employers. I know a lot of people who succeeded with an ordinary degree (some very successful) and they didn't all go to England to do it. It is still a degree, so be grateful that your son is in the Scottish system and gets a degree of some sort.

@TizerorFizz I certainly don't want to lie to him. It was a 4 year course bit because he's passed elements of Y3 (projects, labs group things) they say he can have an Ordinary degree but not progress to 4th year for the honours part. The ordinary will be a BSc but the Aerospace honours would have been a BEng. It looks to me that an Ordinary degree may equal or beat an HND so things that require that level of entry might be a good bet.
@lifelessordinarydegree - thank you, that is a positive story and we need a bit of that just now.

We've asked him to consider coming here. Our initial visa covered him as he was under 21. We are now Greencards and he is 22 so we'd have to start again. He is unmarried and healthy so on the easier side of the US system.

I don't feel study for a Masters would be his wish - he's a bit beaten down by how his expectations of university didn't match the pandemic realities.

He is practical so still think apprenticeship type idea might suit him but after he's had a think he may just pivot completely away from Engineering.

Hopefully he can use the Ordinary as a qualification like his Nat 5s, Highers and Advanced Highers if he choses to move away from engineering.

I wish this wasn't happening and that I was there to help in a more practical way than just pay his bills but I have got ideas from your advice ladies so thank you,

@maranella no it was 4 year B.Eng Aerospace sysyems, not the MSc. I think he'll work wherever a job takes him but would hope to stay in Glasgow initially.
@Mushbrains he is dyslexic and has vision issues but they know that already. As exams were at home on computer for all but this last year no special arrangements were made.

My son started uni in Oct 2019 and has been massively affected by COVID. He had a meltdown last year and he is currently re doing his third year. It’s meant an extra 9 k for us in accommodation costs and another year of loans but it means he is going to leave Uni with a decent degree and so is worth it. V stressful though for all concerned though so feel your pain OP.

@Figleaf I didn’t mean lie to him. I meant don’t take advice about covering up the degree classification. Nearly every degree is hons these days so it’s best to be honest about it being ordinary. He might be happier looking away from engineering. I do feel for you. It’s worrying.

Personally I would say don't accept the degree as if he accepts he won't be able to get funding to do a degree again in future. Perhaps he could accept a diploma and then apply to a degree elsewhere to get his honours? I would suggest he books in for a careers appointment and goes through all of these options, and potential funding opportunities in future?

I don’t think he’d be able to anyway. You can only get 4 years of undergraduate funding I think. DD’s ex boyfriend has failed year 1 of two different degrees and can’t start a 3rd as he wouldn’t get another three years of funding.

Some of the best engineers are dyslexic - and, strangely enough, they are good because they are dyslexic. The condition often brings with it a good 'mind's eye' and creative abilities, even if it leaves students vulnerable in the exam room. Don't lose heart.

It would be good to get a reference from an academic who can vouch for your DS's practical project skills if that's at all possible at the moment.

He probably can’t resit another year regardless as he won’t have the student finance left.
Depending on his degree classification he may be able to look at some graduate schemes but the best thing he can do is just crack on with getting a job - at this point any job. It’ll do wonders for his confidence.
His uni careers service should be able to help him!

This is terrible advice. He's completed 3 years study and gained a BSc. That's not nothing and while it means he will have to rethink his options it is a meaningful piece of paper to graduate and walk away with.

But you don’t say whether you know more about “why” he has failed.

if serious mental health issues, an apprenticeship scheme at the current time would not be sensible

An ordinary degree is useless. Get him onto the second year of a different engineering course.

In the UK an ordinary degree in engineering is useless. He won’t be able to do anything with it. You need an hons to even get analyst positions. He needs to resit somewhere else from 2nd year.

Wow rude much?

OP your son is not useless.

His degree is not useless.

It may not be adequate for his original plans ie engineering but other careers are available. But it's nasty attitudes like calling his degree "useless" that say more about the snobbery of the writer. Yes it's a lower value qualification than a BSc (Hons) but it is still by definition a Bachelor's degree which he can use to progress in other areas. It has value.

Just remembered another friend I knew who got a BSc (ordinary) in a science subject. Went straight to another uni to do an MSc in a different area (Comp sci related) and also gained a second masters when older. That ordinary didn't hold him back. It's not uncommon (perhaps in Scotland only?)

How long ago?

I agree with this! There are many career paths to take to any end result not just a ‘BA Hons’ and I hope that OP and OP’s son can have the last laugh at some of these judgemental posts.

I would say an apprenticeship or a trainee program with a large company. Could he do that in the US? He might suit something tech related given he’s shown himself to be numerate with his ordinary degree in engineering.

@Notellinganyone He asked to redo the entire year last year but was told better to bank his project/lab marks as they were good and redo the failed exams. I would willingly pay to take up the slack where his 4 years funding has run out. He's frightened now he'll fail whatever he does :-(

@TizerorFizz I think you are probably right.

@OutwiththeOutCrowd Some of his issues stem from not being on campus a lot since semester 1 of his 1st year through to Semester 2 of his first go at 3rd year. Not sure he has an especially good relationship with any of the tutors as things were largely remote. Getting a reference could prove difficult but I will suggest it.

@lifelessordinarydegree you are a very positive person - thank you :-)

@HandsupSue no mental issues no, just separation from his family for 2 years (borders closed in US until Dec 2021) and no meaningful contact with lecturers for 4 semesters. He left school with As at Higher and As and Bs at advanced Higher but there if he had a problem he could work through it with classmates or teachers. At Glasgow it was remote for 2 semesters (S2 of Y1 to S2 of Y3).

Thanks again ladies, I like to think through problems by talking to people. DH doesn't and trying to get info from DS when he's sad and in shock has been difficult. American neighbours here don't seem to get it as here you can redo things as often as you like/are prepared to keep paying. Nice to still have British heads on MN to talk it through.

I still think a conversation between him and his tutor, course leader, with you in the background to help him, is the first step here. To find out exactly what all the options are.

I'd still encourage him to fight, to find out out if sitting a few papers, or another year at this Uni, or another year at another Uni, will give him the degree he wants, then closure to move onto whatever is next.

Has he looked at doing his masters at Cranfield university near Milton Keynes Husband done his 7 years ago but it had no exam. Was a Master of science so more applicable abroad. The university is known for aerospace.

Failing that looking at an apprenticeship /graduate programmes

Your question i think is how to parent on this one? Haven’t read the rest of the comments so not sure if this is one suggestion but mine would be just… let him figure it out?

I had loads of problems at uni and my parents were supportive in the sense that I knew i was loved, knew i had a home with them if i needed it but otherwise they would never give advice or suggestions around resit / not resit / take x degree or y honours etc.

I say that to give context to my advice. And the further rationale that you are his mum, not his careers advisor or academic supervisor. He’s also an adult, and whilst he may still look to you for input now, in my experience young people in their 20s quickly tire of parental helpful suggestions.

My suggestion: let him know he is loved and supported. Ask him what he wants to do. Help him think through his realistic options. Don’t be cross or emotional on his behalf. He’s probably beating himself up enough without feeling he let you down too.