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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

DD changed her mind about degree course to apply for - away from a useful/vocational one!

183 replies

Tortoise44 · 17/05/2023 17:21

My daughter was all set to apply to unis this autumn to study finance. We have done four uni visits already and have booked in three more (and already bought the train tickets!). She has now decided that although she wants to work in finance (probably), she would rather study languages! This is surely a very bad idea from a career perspective.

I am annoyed because she wants to look at different unis to the ones we’ve visited/booked up for so we have wasted time and money. In addition, she never reads books and I am told that languages require studying literature. A languages degree is also four years rather than three so extra funding required! All in all, she should clearly stick with finance but what do others advise? Her A-levels are Maths, Business and Spanish and she will hopefully get BBB in her mocks at least.

OP posts:
Fairislefandango · 18/05/2023 18:47

I have no clue about how to support my DD if she does pursue languages though as I have zero aptitude on that front and cannot advise her in the slightest.

I wouldn't worry about that, OP! It's not as if most parents have an aptitude for the subjects in which their children do a degree. Dh and I are both very experienced teachers... in history and languages respectively. Our ds is heading for A Levels in physics, maths, further maths and computing and hopes to do a physics degree Shock. We wouldn't have the first clue about how to help him!

Topseyt123 · 18/05/2023 18:51

Niceseasidetown · 18/05/2023 17:56

Out of interest what does she say when you point out LLMs such as ChatGPT will wipe out the need for human translators before her degree is over?

She needs to understand the future employment market.

If she loves languages it's a great hobby.

I think you have not understood the purpose of an MFL degree.

Translation is just one part of it.

Oh, and those of us who have worked with languages (I used to be a bilingual secretary) do not appreciate such a major part of our lives being referred to as a great hobby, as if it has no other value.

Fairislefandango · 18/05/2023 19:00

Out of interest what does she say when you point out LLMs such as ChatGPT will wipe out the need for human translators before her degree is over?

Yeah people have been saying that about online translation tools for decades. Doesn't make it true. If you actually want to communicate properly with people and not sound like a robot or an insular Brit, you need to actually be able to speak the language. Anyway, what on earth makes you think that most people who do MFL degrees become 'human translators'?

SiouxsieSiouxStiletto · 18/05/2023 19:04

I have no clue about how to support my DD if she does pursue languages though as I have zero aptitude on that front and cannot advise her in the slightest.

Oh gosh is that a thing? <panics, looks very scared, flounders a bit, pulls myself together again>. I mean, I haven't been able to help DS with Maths since he was about 7 and it's going to be a big part of his degree from September. It have never occurred to me that I would have to do this!

Seriously though OP, if you want to support her let her know that she goes with your blessing and you fully support her choices.

Help her decide which Uni she would like to go and when it gets nearer to the time help her choose some nice things for her room.

I'm so glad that you've had a change of heart. I agree that this thread must have been a very hard read at times but it sounds as though you've gone around and can keep building your relationship with your DD Flowers

Greenfairydust · 18/05/2023 19:09

You need to remember that ultimately it is her life and her choice, not yours.

It sounds like you are trying to dictate what she should be doing and are only basing your choice on what will be the most lucrative rather than considering that she might actually want to do something she is interested in, not what would please you...

Jev82 · 18/05/2023 19:14

@Tortoise44 your last message made me laugh! I threw my parents an enormous curveball 25 years ago. Turns out your parents are devastated when the first in the family to go to Uni decides they don't want to go to Cambridge after all!

I turned out really well. I earn a really good amount of money working a career I adore and I also spent 10 years doing what I loved post-degree because of the choices I made. Uni is more and more about getting all the extra things out of it, so while you can't help her practice her German you can really encourage her to make the most of all the opportunities she will get through extra course activities and her student union.

She will be fine and so will you!

HagsGlen · 18/05/2023 19:58

Topseyt123 · 18/05/2023 18:51

I think you have not understood the purpose of an MFL degree.

Translation is just one part of it.

Oh, and those of us who have worked with languages (I used to be a bilingual secretary) do not appreciate such a major part of our lives being referred to as a great hobby, as if it has no other value.

Show quote history

It’s a classic monoglot Brit position, though. Clearly hasn’t even got his/her head around just doing your job, but being capable of doing it fluently in another language.

I’ve got a Dublin-based friend who works in finance (originally accountancy background, now investment), but because he speaks fluent Japanese, a lot of his business comes from there. An architect friend gets a lot of business from Germany because he is fluent in German, and deliberately employs people who are fluent in more than one language because it’s good for the practice.

DorritLittle · 18/05/2023 20:09

Nobody I know who did MFL is a translator which is a very different skill. And often requires an MA.

Also learning a language as a hobby is defo not the same as doing a degree in it.

DorritLittle · 18/05/2023 20:14

Theoldwrinkley · 18/05/2023 18:44

I think she should do what she wants to do, after she has explained in detail why she has had a change of heart.
But, all these previous people who have commented that lots of opportunities for language graduates....not in my experience. My son has good degree from well respected uni in French with Italian, and drives lorries. Not abroad, just an HGV driver. He loves it and is settled, but with thousands owing for degree. No jobs.

Well HGV drivers are paid a lot at the moment due to a driver shortage. Language graduates have the same opportunities as other arts/humanities graduates though. E.g law, finance, teaching, civil service, local government. Some of which would require a postgraduate but that’s not specific to languages.

Niceseasidetown · 18/05/2023 20:14

Greenfairydust · 18/05/2023 19:09

You need to remember that ultimately it is her life and her choice, not yours.

It sounds like you are trying to dictate what she should be doing and are only basing your choice on what will be the most lucrative rather than considering that she might actually want to do something she is interested in, not what would please you...

It's her choice but if she's making that decision in ignorance of reality Mum is right to speak up. Just as you would for a friend.

Niceseasidetown · 18/05/2023 20:16

Fairislefandango · 18/05/2023 19:00

Out of interest what does she say when you point out LLMs such as ChatGPT will wipe out the need for human translators before her degree is over?

Yeah people have been saying that about online translation tools for decades. Doesn't make it true. If you actually want to communicate properly with people and not sound like a robot or an insular Brit, you need to actually be able to speak the language. Anyway, what on earth makes you think that most people who do MFL degrees become 'human translators'?

I commission translation for a global company and we just switched to an AI system

Travelban · 18/05/2023 20:16

I am an MFL.and politics graduate and have had a decent corporate career in leadership roles in STEM.

In the last 10 years, I have worked mainly in global roles and although we all speak in English, i do enjoy the fact I can communicate with colleagues in other languages.

Many of my friends who did a language degree went into finance, some like.me into a.variety of professions..I don't know anyone who has gone into translating.

Fairislefandango · 18/05/2023 20:26

It's her choice but if she's making that decision in ignorance of reality Mum is right to speak up. Just as you would for a friend.

Not trying to be rude, but Mum has made it pretty clear on this thread that she doesn't necessarily know much more about this than her dd does.

I commission translation for a global company and we just switched to an AI system.

That would be a more relevant point if MFL graduates only got jobs in translation.

TheMoops · 18/05/2023 20:38

It's her choice but if she's making that decision in ignorance of reality Mum is right to speak up. Just as you would for a friend.

But it's clear mum is advising in ignorance of reality ........

Mischance · 18/05/2023 21:29

The reason that languages are good is that they open up the possibility of working abroad. Not as a linguist, but in any field she might choose.

lastdayatschool · 18/05/2023 21:46

Mischance · 18/05/2023 21:29

The reason that languages are good is that they open up the possibility of working abroad. Not as a linguist, but in any field she might choose.

Plenty of places you can work abroad nowadays without a language, given English is the generally the language used in global corporates nowadays.

OMGitsnotgood · 18/05/2023 22:13

Out of interest what does she say when you point out LLMs such as ChatGPT will wipe out the need for human translators before her degree is over?

Out of interest, how many graduates of other non-vocational degrees end up in jobs related to the subject matter of their degrees?

HagsGlen · 18/05/2023 22:20

lastdayatschool · 18/05/2023 21:46

Plenty of places you can work abroad nowadays without a language, given English is the generally the language used in global corporates nowadays.

Show quote history

Just for a moment, imagine the wide world of work outside of ‘global corporates’….

lastdayatschool · 18/05/2023 22:22

Fair point @HagsGlen - remove the world "corporate" from my post 🙂

Travelban · 18/05/2023 22:36

HagsGlen · 18/05/2023 22:20

Just for a moment, imagine the wide world of work outside of ‘global corporates’….

Show quote history

I have worked for.global corporates all my career and still do. Yes we communicate in English to.each other but if you move to Germany or Spain or.anywhere, you're still.expexted to be fluent..even if you weren't it would be rubbish whilst all your colleagues speak to each other in your mother tongue and you can't understand a word.

JuneOsborne · 19/05/2023 08:31

Fair play@Tortoise44 for taking it. Control freak knob made me chuckle.

She may well change her mind again. And again. This time is difficult, were expecting our teenagers to know what they want to do not just for the next 3/4 years, but potentially for a decade or more. It's a lot of pressure. The best advice has to be to help them make a decision that allows them to be happy. The uni years are hard, but should also be fun. If there's no fun, it is even harder.

W0tnow · 19/05/2023 10:41

Exactly how fluent are you if you start studying a language from scratch as part of a degree? By the time you graduate I mean.

BrightNow · 19/05/2023 10:48

CastleTower · 17/05/2023 17:25

What makes you think a languages degree is less useful than finance? Loads of businesses need people who speak other languages, not to mention it would give her the ability to work abroad.

I doubt most people working in finance have "finance" degrees tbh - it doesn't usually work that way.

Yes, it does. You can’t just learn derivation and duration calculations on the job.

cestlavielife · 19/05/2023 11:54

W0tnow · 19/05/2023 10:41

Exactly how fluent are you if you start studying a language from scratch as part of a degree? By the time you graduate I mean.

Depends which language, study abroad, application and practice. I learned a related romance language in final year, went on a course in the coubtry, became fluent. It s very feasible to become fluent through taking up opportunities to immerse in the language

Belmondo · 19/05/2023 12:20

Mischance · 18/05/2023 21:29

The reason that languages are good is that they open up the possibility of working abroad. Not as a linguist, but in any field she might choose.

Sorry, I haven't read the full thread but I'd second this.

I did MFL at a highly-regarded uni (many years ago!), mainly because I was good at languages at A-level but partially because very single adult I encountered at the time was absolutely convinced that I'd be bullet-proof post-graduation, "what with the EU" 😳😱 obviously if I'd known the buggers would all vote for Brexit twenty years later I'd have had a rethink!...

Seriously though, whilst I enjoyed my languages degree, a part of me wishes I'd done something else (maybe a bit more vocational) plus a language element. I don't know how many MFL degrees nowadays don't include literature but it's certainly a really good way to get under the skin of a language, as it were, so I'd be cautious around that if she's definitely anti-lit.

This may all have been said before but it's worth flagging:

  • studying a lang for 4yrs at uni (and spending time abroad, possibly solo) is a lot more intense than doing it at A-level.
  • a year abroad can be a fantastic experience, but it can also be scary - great for personal growth though!
  • translation is just one very niche specialism that linguists might go into - it's not enough to just have a language degree and nowadays, when machine translation can do so much in technical and scientific translation, literary translation is a crowded market and you have to be amazing at it to have much success.
  • personally I believe that studying a language per se (just enjoying learning it and learning about another culture/society) is very valuable, and valid, BUT, it's not necessarily a straight route into a job.