DD changed her mind about degree course to apply for - away from a useful/vocational one!

[Tortoise44]

My daughter was all set to apply to unis this autumn to study finance. We have done four uni visits already and have booked in three more (and already bought the train tickets!). She has now decided that although she wants to work in finance (probably), she would rather study languages! This is surely a very bad idea from a career perspective.

I am annoyed because she wants to look at different unis to the ones we’ve visited/booked up for so we have wasted time and money. In addition, she never reads books and I am told that languages require studying literature. A languages degree is also four years rather than three so extra funding required! All in all, she should clearly stick with finance but what do others advise? Her A-levels are Maths, Business and Spanish and she will hopefully get BBB in her mocks at least.

The key thing is OP, that a finance degree isn't vocational. I know you think it is, but it's the equivalent of thinking a Media degree is vocational and will bag you a job at the BBC. A languages degree will be far more sought after and get her into a higher ranked uni and all the benefits career wise that can flow from that.

There is no need to pay her tuition fees and do more than top up to max loan.
( do throw in a new laptop and duvet for her room)

She can pay it back as grad tax.

Better she studies what she is interested in whether that s german history or latin america Studies.

There is no guarantee with any but enthusiasm and parental support (not control) will go a long way to a high grade degreee.

@Tortoise44 Your stance on the fees makes no sense. If you really just want her to become an accountant, you're wasting your money paying for a degree (whatever the subject) and she should do an apprenticeship after sixth form. She can get exactly the same qualification (ACA) that way with no debt and at no cost to you. She will progress more quickly as she'll be 3-4 years ahead of her grad scheme peers.

If you're happy to fund a degree for her, you should do your homework on what will actually most help her get on a graduate scheme with an accountancy firm (or any grad scheme). I would say languages was up there as one of the best. I used to work for a big 4 firm in their VAT compliance team. We dealt with the VAT compliance for big companies all over the world, so we specifically recruited people with language skills who could speak to overseas advisers and tax authorities. You'd be better off funding a languages degree that will give her the edge when applying for grad schemes, than an accountancy or finance degree. The only benefit of the latter is that she'll have to do fewer professional exams, but it will still take her three years to qualify.

Languages is a much better choice than finance - opens up her options. She shouldn't be tied into something vocational at 18 unless she's 100% sure, and even then I'm not convinced it's a good idea. She can do accounting qualifications whilst being paid if she still wants to do that when she graduates - she'll probably change a lot in the next 3-4 years, and you need to get used to having less input into her life choices.

I strongly agree that the OP's DD should choose a university course she will enjoy studying, with the caveat that she should be able to justify to her parents:
a) her reasons for wishing to study it, and
b) what opportunities she thinks it will lead to post-graduation.

However, reading the thread below, it's "great" to see how many MNs have:

a. jumped to the conclusion that the DD wants to become a big 4 accountant or work in the city - never mentioned in the OP.
b. dismissed Accounting and Finance as a boring/easy/noddy degree

My DS has elected to study A&F next year and, having been to a number of Open Days at top 15 universities, and spoken to their Business School staff about

a. their course syllabus - generally a mix of Economics, Law, Management and Maths modules, in addition to specialised A&F subjects, and

b. where their graduates typically achieve employment - the usual mix of Accounting, Professional Services, Banking but also Manufacturing, FMCG, Fintech companies etc;

I'm satisfied it's a worthwhile degree for him to pursue.

Note: I did promote Economics as an alternative but he justified not wanting to do this due to it being too competitive to get into high-ranking universities - he's a 3A pupil, not a 3/4 A star pupil.

However, he does has offers from Bristol and Exeter (high-ranking enough for you Mums ?) and didn't get into Durham/Edinburgh (other examples of high-ranking universities doing A&F courses, despite it being a "noddy" course).

When it comes round to him applying for graduate jobs, I have no doubts he'll prosper (despite not doing a so-called "interesting" course).

Having worked at a couple of major IB firms and PS firms, and currently being Senior Director of a Global Payments company, my experience of mainstream Graduate Recruitment programmes are that they are more interested in the abilities, characteristics and experiences of a candidate, not what they studied.

He's a well rounded boy (e.g. has led school committees, played representative rugby and had a number of part-time jobs) and I know, as someone who currently interviews graduates, these are the types of experience that provide ample opportunities to demonstrate abilities employers are looking for (he says he won't touch Payments with a bargepole though 😀)

@lastdayatschool

I also did chemistry, and then was hired in finance. I think for both degree's it might vary where you study etc. Anyway, I think if she wants to study language's, that's a great option.

@ringsaglitter Although I studied Chemistry, I joined an IB upon graduation, albeit it in the technology division, so not directly finance related.

Full agree - languages is a great option (and an often underrated one) for future career prospects, and our DC are much better placed at University if they're doing something they enjoy/are interested in.

DHs cousin is doing very nicely in Corporate Finance with his french degree. My DN is doing nicely at PWC with husband history degree. Another relative is CEO of a private equity company with another language degree.

rubbish - we offered to pay both her tuition fees and living costs so she can go debt free. We have a HUGE say as a result. Or, if she doesn’t do vocational degree, she can take out the loans and go her own way - no probs - and we will do what most parents do and top up minimum maintenance loans to maximum

Then she'd be far better off taking the loan.

Your approach is all wrong...you can't bribe a child to study something they aren't interested in. Not to mention the fact that you are wrong about the value of a languages degree.

@lastdayatschool The difference between your DS and the OP's DD is that your child actually wants to study accounts and finance.

I'm sure most people who have been to uni know people who dropped out, failed or got a third because they signed up to do a subject that they didn't really want to do. An undergrad is at least three years, and that's a long time to fake an interest. Understandably, most people can't do that, hence not making it to the end, or not making it to the end with a decent grade.

I find the majority of higher calibre candidates for training contracts haven't studied accounts and finance, but that's not to say that I never offer jobs to accounts and finance grads. It's just that they tend to be the exception, not the majority.

If your lad is the type to do lots of extracurriculars, I'm sure he'll round out his uni experience and be one of those exceptions who knows there's more to life than debits and credits. Our views on the right route for the OP's DD are not an attack on your DS.

There are just so many different routes into accountancy these days. You don't even have to do a technician apprenticeship - it's possible to do a chartered apprenticeship. Or there's the traditional degree first and then chartered training contract. There are a million routes in, and the one that the OP's DD wants to do, is another very valid route.

And if she changes her mind at the end of her degree because it turns out she didn't want to be an accountant, and that was just her mother, having a languages degree opens more options than an accounts and finance degree. You have the same general skills of having a degree, plus experience living (and often working) abroad, plus a foreign language or two.

ABSOLUTELY!! No one should be calling any degree ‘noddy’. I think most posters were trying to get across that the OP’s DD should study what she wants and that a language degree is a great option. It’s about choices and this one won’t limit her as the OP seems to believe. Many of us banged on about not needing and finance degree because you don’t need it. Firms recruit exactly as you’ve said. More and more are uni blind, degree blind and classification blind as they have their own often multi-staged assessment/recruitment processes, they just want a grad or sometimes an apprentice.

I wonder if OP will be back now that so few people have given her what she wanted to hear from this thread? Which was that she is totally right and her DD is making a stupid decision - because MFL is such a ridiculous degree choice!

It's a great degree choice. It also opens up options other than finance and accountancy too. OP doesn't seem to consider the possibility that her DD might want to have other options open to her. She refuses to contemplate anything else and is trying to blackmail her into letting her control the choices.

Well, this thread has been hard to read at times because it has called me out but extremely helpful nonetheless! I spoke to the head of MFL at DD’s college today and contacted the careers adviser there too. Also spoke to admissions at one of the unis on DD’s possible list and they got the languages department to kindly call me back. All three explained (at some length) that MFL is in no way limiting and actually quite the opposite (which is exactly what so many PP have said here). I have no clue about how to support my DD if she does pursue languages though as I have zero aptitude on that front and cannot advise her in the slightest. So thank you and sorry for being uninformed about non-vocational degrees and generally for being a bit of a control freak knob about it all 😳

I’m glad you’re feeling better about it. I get it’s hard to take a step back if you think they’re making a mistake.

OP it's easy to panic when your children are making such big decisions.

I wouldn't worry about your lack of languages aptitude or experience. University lecture halls generally aren't full of the latest of a long line of whatever subject is being taught. Still plenty of first generation to even go to university, plenty people studying something their parents haven't got experience of. There are other ways she can get that advice, and in the nicest possible way, it's sometimes better to get that advice away from home where there may be vested interests etc.

Don't worry too much about having no aptitude for foreign languages yourself. My parents had none either even though both were teachers. That is what the tutors and careers guidance teams at university are for.

All you have to do is support her financially and in whatever other way you were already planning on doing. Be there for her through everything, however it goes. You are her support network, no longer making decisions for her but supporting her to make her own.

It's a leap of faith to let go (I've done it twice now, and there will be a third at some point), but you have to. These are her choices now.

Well done for admitting your error now. I hope that you and DD can now move forward on a smoother and happier footing.

To be honest I think your post is quite judgemental. It is her life. And the time and money spent on previous visits is not wasted - it has helped her to clarify in her mind what she really wants to do. That is part of what university visits are about.

I took my DD on a number of visits, and on the way home from one she suddenly said she wasn't sure that she really wanted to do the subject and would prefer to look at other options. I backed her all the way - told her she was brave to change her mind and voice that; and that I would support her choices. She enjoyed what she did and has a good degree and career.

She has now decided that although she wants to work in finance (probably), she would rather study languages! This is surely a very bad idea from a career perspective.

It's really not. She can do a Masters in Finance, or do a joint degree, or snag a graduate training programme - a graduate wit a dgeree in languages will be in demand in a global world. As long as she gets fluent, and maybe does some interning/work placements in the countries of the languages she's learning.

Most young people in the rest of Europe have English to a very good level, whatever their discipline. UK students are generally very poor in languages other than English.

Of course, Brexit ...

Of course, Brexit

Yes, Brexshit (the stupidest thing this country has ever done) doesn't help. Students do now have to jump through hoops in order to get a visa to study or work in the country of choice for their year abroad.

I have a DD who is currently approaching the end of her year abroad, which she split six months in South America (for Spanish) and six months in Italy, where she currently is and we are flying out tomorrow morning to visit her.

The visas for South America (Paraguay) were much simpler than for Italy. I thought that despite Brexshit that would still be the other way around. She had to apply directly to the Italian embassy in London and go there for an interview in person. Then there was a two or three week wait while they processed the application. It cost us about £200 plus her train fares. It was granted.

I think most of the necessary visas are often granted, but the systems for applying for them vary by country a bit and are a pain in the arse to navigate.

Well done, OP. 👏 👏 👏

It takes a really good parent to admit that they were wrong, and to support their child in taking a step into the unknown.

Out of interest what does she say when you point out LLMs such as ChatGPT will wipe out the need for human translators before her degree is over?

She needs to understand the future employment market.

If she loves languages it's a great hobby.

Maybe you would benefit from also looking at the future labour market too......

Very few language graduates go into translation/interpreter jobs. It's a degree that is valued by a range of graduate employers, many of which won't ask for specific degree subject but will value the skills she has developed while studying.

My dd is not doing a mfl degree and speaks really good French. She has been teaching me. Tye best way you can support her is to be interested.
When they get to this stage its fantastic when they know more about a subject than you do because you can learn so much.

I think she should do what she wants to do, after she has explained in detail why she has had a change of heart.
But, all these previous people who have commented that lots of opportunities for language graduates....not in my experience. My son has good degree from well respected uni in French with Italian, and drives lorries. Not abroad, just an HGV driver. He loves it and is settled, but with thousands owing for degree. No jobs.