Part 2: Continuation of 2023 uni (and other) applications for those pursuing art and creative routes

[Duchessofmuchness]

As requested transferring us all over hear for the continuation of the 2023 journey. Have so enjoyed the company and support of all on the first thread. Link to original thread copied below (I hope!)

2023 uni applications for those pursuing art and creative routes www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4626697-2023-uni-applications-for-those-pursuing-art-and-creative-routes

World leading small specialist institutions protected....could that be Ruskin School of Art, Oxford, RADA? I wonder. Sounds like securing of privilege though...and bye bye Sheffield Hallam, Falmouth, Plymouth, Middlesbrough etc that cater to homebase students

I found the list -- apparently the same list will be used until 2027, just with different funding figures. It's p.14 of this document and covers specialist institutions not attached to larger universities, which have been assigned "world class" status. Not many art schools.

https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/media/7bd645bb-079e-42a8-b061-5710b96ecc11/world-leading-specialist-provider-funding-outcome.pdf

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Thanks for sharing this - very interesting information. I've had to read it a few times to try and make sense of it - have I interpreted correctly?

Top-up funding for creative and performing arts courses (other than at certain specialist colleges) will be frozen at £16.7m in 2024-25, (down from £36m in 20/21.) In addition specialist colleges on the spreadsheet posted will still receive additional grants - article doesn't say if that has also been cut?

And separate to creative industries, it's shocking that money is being cut from wondering access!

I'm not an expert, (so would love insight from academics who know the sector) but believe this is one reason why universities depend so heavily on international students- a strong number of international students on a course are I believe cross subsiding domestic students, and of course the draw of UKs university reputation and creative reputation is part of that too.

Yes, that's right (I'm not an academic but DW is and I follow sector news). Subjects which aren't purely lecture-based have had a slight "top up" from the Government, but that money is now being moved towards lab-based STEM courses and away from Creative Arts.

The top-up has never been enough, though, so lecture-based subjects (lower costs) have been subsidising Creative and STEM for a while. And as the tuition fee has been frozen for so long, an increasing share of income comes from overseas students.

The 'hostile environment' and anti-immigration stance of the current Government have led to a collapse in overseas applications, to the point where 45 (!!!) UK universities are trying to find redundancies or simply closing subjects down. Here's the depressing list:
https://qmucu.org/qmul-transformation/uk-he-shrinking/

Wonder what UAL has done to deserve being on the list when other arts specialist institutions are not?
Ironically UAL could fill available places three times over with international students paying full fees and be ok even with no govt funding. Not so for smaller colleges who don't have such a strong brand overseas.

I skimmed the full report and to reach the list the unis had to prove that they had an international reputation for excellence. So it's all a bit circular, as you say!

Ditto Royal College of Art - so it is an odd choice.

I guess the RCA and UAL - specifically CSM and it's Fashion courses are throwing out students who are going on to make lots of money and become renowned artists. Maybe they make the government more money than they cost so worth it for them. Whereas as other Art schools like Leeds just don't produce enough high earning students...

@FancyFanny my understanding is the Nottingham Trent's Fashion courses are excellent and have great outcomes for their students.

@PhotoDad the list sounds full of places that they Govt have heard of and easily recognisable. When we no longer produce any artists, musicians etc. are we supposed to sit in a vacuum of silence starting at the walls?

@Soma Maybe so, but it wouldn't qualify as a specialist provider anyway because they don't only offer Art, they are a general university.

Not surprisingly a good proportion of the institutions on the list are in London.

It seems like a short sighted way to fund arts by giving more to specialist schools unless these institutions by virtue of their "specialist" less diverse nature have fixed costs that are more easily covered in other institutions by other subjects. But somewhere like UAL has a huge international cohort who must contribute hugely to their finances vs some other unis.

I was really surprised to see some of the unis who had redundancies underway or in recent past. Some names surprised me given that they seem well funded and well respected but I suppose by cutting lower margin courses they improve profits and success of unis overall. It suggests that over time there will be more specialism as well as some uni closures where they don't have the right strategy. An the "hostile" immigration environment definitely not going your way help when international students can choose US, Europe, Australia etc

@jadedjune (or anyone else waiting) has your DD heard from Newcastle yet? Still completely zilch form them or Manchester met. here. It never occurred tome that we would have to wait this long- I though all offers would be out by the end of march but I'veseen a post on TSR from newcastle saying they will have made all decisions by 16th May. DD is going on holiday on the 8th- it would be just her luck that they'll want to interview her then.

Nothing here from Newcastle either but one of dd's friends has been made an offer after an interview. Nothing either from Edinburgh here either but I guess she may be on a waiting list. It's highly unlikely that Dd would go to Newcastle and she's wavering about Edin as well anyway. She has an unconditional offer to go to the University of Leeds and is off to an Offer Holder Day on the 20th which might or might not bed it in as her preferred choice.

My DD says some of her friends are going to the offer holder day for Fine Art at Man Met this week. It seems so strange that they are holding these days when there are still students waiting to hear. Will there be other days, or does not hearing by this stage mean it's a no?

I remember Man Met being slow on offers 2 years ago. My dc went to an open day in the May to decide. Just about got a place in halls as there was not loads left but it worked out really well as the halls were right by the art school. 2 years on and loving it (animation and illustration)

Yes, same for my DD. Man Met Halls had mostly gone by the time she firmed her offer but there are private halls - Unite etc. which are over the road from Man Met accomodation. They're a very similar price too.

I've not heard of anyone being rejected from Newcastle or Manchester yet which makes me me think they'll just wait until 16 May to send out rejections. That would be so cruel.

Yippee! DD got an offer for Fine Art at Manchester today!

I'm so relieved. At least she has a choice of two now. Don't know what to advise her between UAL Chelsea and Manchester. Would appreciate any thoughts from anyone on either of those.

She went to Chelsea offer holder day today. She thought it was ok but the facilities were limited- no printing and no dark room! Not been to Manchester- ironically, their offer holder day was today so as no offer at the time she missed it and it would have clashed with Chelsea anyway.

Congrats @FancyFanny! No advise as no experience of either, but good news.

Congratulations, @FancyFanny! And I hope that all of our DC are doing well and/or getting their offers.

DD is wrapping up second year (!!!!) Classes are over, but they have two weeks to finalise hand in their two portfolios for the trimester. One is "illustrating children's books" (still the biggest part of the market) and one is "illustrating everything else." DD has gone a little bit above and beyond by writing a children's book and then illustrating it...

How time has flown @PhotoDad! My DD is still waiting to hear from Bath (😡) and LSE, has decided against Glasgow and submitted her college (accommodation) rankings to Durham. Obviously not for art. So still in limbo about next year.
Her FAD course doesn't end until late June so still doing her final project. Enjoying more of the offering at the London museums (art classes, lectures, exhibitions) this term. Her friends are off to Goldsmiths (fine art), UAL (theatre design) and Cambridge (architecture) and one yet to decide. It's been a good year, the work experience month in Portugal the highlight, and she's made a solid group of friends. Needs to get a summer job but her late term and then immediately heading to Spain for a holiday and therefore mid July, but she could start work now if they would fit in her schedule. She hasn't been very proactive!

Oh, good lord, having been rejected from Glasgow School of Art a month ago and having pretty much almost settled on an unconditional offer from Uni of Leeds, dd has now just had a further email and unconditional offer from GSA.

It's thrown her into a quandary. What a flippin' rollercoaster.

@outyoctober so a rejection then an acceptance? Was the first one in error? How odd and yes discombobulating!
Glasgow (the city) is great though. No idea about Leeds.

Yes, rejection after an interview then an acceptance with an unconditional offer. They're explaining it as places now having become available as renovations have been completed ahead of schedule freeing up more studio space ...🤔

Having been a university admissions lead, I very much suspect it's that others have now rejected GSA and it's freed up places. UCAS has now also updated to reflect the changed offer.