Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

Has she thought about European Studies at Durham instead? DS did this and it covered history, politics and philosophy AFAICR.
Actually, he could also offer a modern language so did European Studies with German/Spanish/French (delete as necessary). It's a four year course with the third year spent in the country whose language you speak.

When you say their qualifications are 'A level equivalent,' are they A levels or...? I think A levels will always be favoured by an established university over other qualifications (except maybe good results on an Access course.)

@albertandlilylight If they've been offered a place on a different course, it's worth your child calling Durham. It could be an admin error. I knew someone who was rejected by a uni years ago but it was an admin mistake and they ended up going there, so these things do happen.

If your child has a clear first choice I don't think that effects the outcome in any way from a university's end unfortunately.

🤣
Definitely.
In dd's case, it's basically the other course is harder to get in on, but I think one of her extra activities probably made them think she would be suitable for this one. It's very similar, just with an emphasis on one part of it. They haven't said that though.
In her case, I think they're right, she will suit this one, plus she was just desperate to get an offer from this place. But I can see how if it isn't what you want to do, then a little bit of information talking about why they feel you'd be good at the other course (and how it's similar/differs) would be a good idea.

I presume if a uni is looking for 3 A* and 9 GCSE 9s then getting more than this won’t necessarily help? That is the limit on offer at many schools so to give priority to those with more would penalise students who had no option to get more but are likely to be just as good candidates.

Sorry if this comes across as tough love, I spent a long time in/around academia and have watched a lot of people tie themselves in knots - Ditch Durham and their offer of something your child doesn’t want to do. They’re trying to fill a course that obviously isn’t otherwise oversubscribed. Which at a university like Durham - what does that tell you? It’s expensive, cliquey and apart from in very specific cases, the undergrad courses are ok but no better/worse than the rest of the Russell group. I know people who went there because “it’s like Harry Potter” with fantasies of living in Castle College and were swayed by how “pretty” it was. But then spent their second and third years living in damp ex council houses, cursing how expensive, boring and beholden to sports teams it is and left asap afterwards. Now that’s fine if you go in eyes open or some of that appeals to you but if your child is dead set on that course then go elsewhere history is not the same as archaeology), if it’s “Durham” they’re dreaming of then a reality check might be in order. Maybe drive them round the less salubrious bits of Gilesgate or Pity Me. Don’t say “oh switch course when you get there” because they might not be able to and then they’re stuck on a course they don’t care for spending an eye watering amount of money to be there. Go somewhere that has valued them enough to recognise their abilities and give them an offer of what they actually want to do.

You are missing the point @HagoftheNorth . I was simply talking about my friend's DC's experience. I have no idea what supra-curricular the DC in the OP has or indeed which school they went to. I am simply saying that in order to be considered on a par with a DC with perfect grades from an underperforming school, then a DC needs to be able to demonstrate more than perfect grades to be considered equal. And rightly so.

University tutor here, with a serious focus on admissions (though not at Durham). I cannot stress enough that your child should absolutely NOT accept a place with a view to being able to switch course. I see many, many students who are told the same by well meaning people each year, who are subsequently devastated when the answer is no. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it is so far from guaranteed that it is an incredibly unsafe plan.

The bottom line is, your child didn't get in. So 2 choices: go elsewhere or try again next year. Pros and cons to both. But in my experience, sometimes things happen for a reason, and so being open minded to alternatives is absolutely the best thing that both of you can do now. I know it's easy to say when you are in the middle of a situation like this, but trying to complain etc is futile and will just make you both feel a hell of a lot worse, because the outcome is extremely unlikely to change. Your child has amazing opportunities available with her impressive ability, try facilitate her in a plan B, which is what we always discuss with even the most able candidates

I presume if a uni is looking for 3 A* and 9 GCSE 9s then getting more than this won’t necessarily help? That is the limit on offer at many schools so to give priority to those with more would penalise students who had no option to get more but are likely to be just as good candidates.

@Shelefttheweb I doubt this, I expect the more good grades someone has, the better. Otherwise there'd be no point someone taking more than 3 A levels, if it didn't give them an edge. Of course if someone has 5 As (for instance) it's going to look better than 3 and they'll be more likely to get a place.

Anyone can choose to do more than 3 A levels, it just might be in subjects that are less their forte/cup of tea. And speaking for myself I could only handle 3.

Hilariously, nobody at those "next tier down" Universities - one of which I went to - considers Durham in the same class as Oxbridge. Oxbridge are their own thing, Durham is just another Russel Group University. I mainly say this because Oxbridge regularly rank in the top 10 of Universities in the World and Durham is usually somewhere in the top 50. For subject specific lists, it may not be that high (it's not for my subject, Biology, where the TES rankings place it at 251-300th in the world. Cambridge is 2nd. Oxford 4th).

I'm not saying Oxbridge are all that, either. I felt way too working class to go to either and the recruitment fair person didn't want to talk to us because we had t-shirts and jeans instead of blazers! I'm just trying to give some perspective on Durham, which tends to try to lump itself in with Oxbridge.

@Triantha Durham is generally full of Oxbridge rejects and it definitely is not Oxbridge but that doesn't mean that it isn't a very good university in its own right. It is not the be-all and end-all though. There are lots of other very well respected universities for History besides Durham.

I have never seen any evidence that more than 3 A-levels offers any advantage. 3 A-levels and an EPQ does in some situations.

There are plenty of students with four A-levels who get rejected from the most selective universities, while students studying 3 get made an offer.

@BansheeofInisherin LSE and Imperial are in no way the next tier down from Durham. The odds of securing a place on some courses there are crazily low.

Maybe drive them round the less salubrious bits of Gilesgate or Pity Me.

Ha ha ha. How ridiculous.

I lived in Gilesgate Moor (I think that’s quite likely the bit you mean when talking about the less salubrious bits) and it was absolutely fine. My house (now demolished) is the site of a private hall of residence.

As for Pity Me - have you seen the house prices there?

Given that Oxbridge admit about 1 in 8 applicants there are plenty of Oxbridge rejects to go around.

I'm perplexed by these comments.
Lse is far harder to get a place at than Durham.
As is Ucl for certain subjects like Architecture.
Op i sympathise with you & your disappointed teenager. As a mother i get very distressed over my childrens issues.
It is a difficult lesson to learn at this stage.But sometimes learning how to handle things going wrong, can be the making of someone. You need to model resilience to them to some respect. Because in life things often go awray.

or awry!

That's actually not amazingly bad odds @jgw. Have a look at the sought-after courses like economics and computer science at the top universities and it is a lot worse than that Oxbridge ratio. Some conservatoires and arts degrees too. Simply saying that there is an undisputable huge concentration of Oxbridge rejects in Durham. Fact.

@FlorentinePaper Oh yes, I completely agree. It's an excellent University, but not necessarily better for History than Edinburgh or Kings College London or (believe it or not) Lancaster University which has a very highly rated History course. All of these (Durham included) have great teaching and will give students a fantastic experience.

I mainly have an issue with people treating Durham - and only Durham, for some reason - as if it's the third one in an Oxford-Cambridge-Durham group of "most prestigious" Universities. It's because it has colleges like Oxbridge, I think. And Castle College is in an actual Castle. Personally I looked around Collingwood College, which had very "70s rec centre" vibes back in 2005 when I visited, and cleared all my illusions of grandeur away quite nicely!

@Triantha I think we had a cross post. And are saying the same thing!

@TiredCatLady - care to share why you called out Pity Me in derogatory terms ?

My parents live near there - it's a lovely little ex mining village.

Oxford and Cambridge if they were American universities would be around the 55th most competitive in terms of applicants to places.

One of the reasons for that is that one can only apply to one of them at a time.

What are universities looking for with extracurriculars and why? We are only just starting secondary school journey so I’d be interested to learn what they look for.

Think supra-curricular.

https://www.worc.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/files/page/supercurricular_guide_0.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2vRcl132K-A-rGDt2lQ9ZDl9ycLJcycGYvqnHVtJBi4d95U-TBwI5bzCg

@FlorentinePaper lol yes I agree!

(Collingwood apparently hasn't redecorated in the last 18 years either, according to Google images! 🤣)

Well taking out the not being able to apply to both factor, that would only be 1:16 (assuming everyone applied to both) Still not that bad odds compared to some courses at some universities.