Durham - deeply disappointed child - any admissions insight

[albertandlilylight]

First choice university by a mile and really really wants to go there and college system would suit very well. 43 (IB) in predicted grades, am told by school very good school reference and personal statement. However, got an offer for a course did not apply for and for which has no interest. Don't understand at all. Worked so hard all the way through school, told hard work rewards and then this. Anyone got any insight to how Durham are offering and is there anything that can be done from here?

From Wikipedia:

In August 2018, the interim Norrington Table showed that 98 per cent of St Hilda's finalist undergraduates obtained at least a 2.i in their degree.

Yeah, it’s a real academic black hole then…

Ah OK, I get you. Did you also hero worship the chaps in the Bullingdon Club?

On average a state school pupil gets a better degree at the same place to a private, I was told years back. And that will include selective states and poor privates,

It seems very unlike that poor private schools still do better than selective state school. When you look at some of the selective state schools in London where pupils attend private preps in order to get in and who send a bunch of pupils to Oxbridge every year, and compare those to unselective provincial private schools where they rarely have an Oxbridge candidate.

Your reply highlighting that you attended Trinity (as opposed to a “lesser” college) only serves to confirm my point 🤷‍♀️

I’m not saying I agree with it, just that it is.

Erm, more of a social black hole…

Hild - Bede was originally two colleges, one for men and one for women, that both did teacher training. It always had a link to Durham, and in the mid 70s a few Hild - Bede students did do degrees at Durham. However, they were rare and most of their students did Certificate in Education courses and were not taught by university staff. It was very definitely regarded as different from the other colleges. At some stage the whole Cert Ed idea was abandoned, and teachers started to do BEd degrees. Hild - Bede became incorporated into Durham University, and their staff provided the basis for Durhams education department. I think now it's just another college, but its history does give it a slightly different feel.

The mind boggles.

No, my point was to pre-empt the inevitable accusation that I went to one of the more modern colleges and so was desperate to argue that they were just as good as the more traditional ones. Some people in the world outside Oxbridge do have the idea that Christchurch/Trinity/Magdalene/Magdalen are somehow superior because of their wealth, beauty and long history to more modern colleges like St. Catherine’s, Robinson or Churchill. My own experience as someone who went to one of those is that they are in no way “superior”, just different, and I would never judge someone by their college, while I would very much judge someone who had such a misplaced superior attitude. You might be interested to know that I applied to a modern college and Trinity actually took me from the pool, so it’s not even true that the older colleges are harder to get into.

@TitterYeeNot was talking about St Hilda’s Oxford, which was a female-only college until 2008.

Sorry.....not paying attention!

@mindra That’s certainly not our experience . Dd had a contextual from Durham in the November and was offered AAB . However her gcse results (8 9s and 2 8s )were higher than some of her friends who she is currently at Durham with (they have talked about it). She got all A stars for her A levels ( as did most of her friends currently at Durham )
I think she got the contextual offer because she had high gcse results (certainly as high as others who were applying) and was predicted further high results at A level . This was despite the circumstances of her education and background and not just because of it which I think some people mistakenly believe.

It’s happening elsewhere- know of 12 x9, x4 A star at A level, excellent ref & PS. Good Independent school.

Feedback, we wish you well but entry to York is v competitive.

They do know if students have applied to Oxford or Cambridge those applications are received earlier (the deadline is October rather than January).

Applying early doesn't necessarily mean an Oxbridge application, anyone can apply as soon as applications open. Lots of early ones will be Oxbridge because of the deadline, but medicine etc also go in early, so it might be the fifth choice for an aspiring medic. Or just from an exam centre that sends gets all applications in asap. DS's school took ages to do their bits, his school friends who applied through a different centre (where they were receiving extra tuition) applied before the October deadline, whether Oxbridge / medicine applicants or not.

I am now imagining the puritanical members of St Hilda’s quietly studying and having early nights whilst their ‘betters’ live a raunchy life with continuous parties and free flowing champagne….

If you look on The Student Room, there are students with 4 and 5 A*' or 44 & 45 IB points predicted or achieved not getting spaces on competitve courses. Anyone who meets the entry requirement is entitled to be considered for a course, they dont have to be predicted 43, unless that is the minimum. Its the price you accept when you put a highly competitive universury or course on your UCAS form. You come across a little entitled.

I work with students in a school, writing references etc for UCAS. Every single year I have at least a couple of students in my group of six or seven who get offers from very good universities, but also rejections from some which are "worse" (pinch of salt there). It's simply a numbers game, I'm afraid.

I remember being at one of the "provincial state schools" mentioned and being visited by the Cambridge rep from Corpus Christi college. The sixth form were clearly keen to up the numbers of Oxbridge applicants and the Cambridge rep was keen to get more "economic diversity" I would imagine. He described a world where all your meals were cooked for you, your bed made, and room cleaned every week but that you would need all of that because you'd have to work so hard. That it was so so so competitive and a million leagues above a "regular" university. We would have to work extra hard as state school kids if we wanted to get in!

I think the level of academic snobbery put us off collectively. I don't think any of us even applied.

I think a number of posters have mentioned that the thread contains privileged people complaining about contextual offers - which I think is unfair as the very nature of this forum is that you don't know other peoples experience, and situation.

Secondly, people have mentioned in a round about way those who play the system - plenty examples of that ie using other people's addresses etc. This system opens itself up to that.

Thirdly if you really do need a high grade to get onto a course due its difficulty - not in terms of the rationing of places but in terms of the skills needed I think a lower contextual offer is wrong as its setting those students up for a fail. There are numerous students who are struggling on courses which they were admitted to as they had high covid A level grades - in a normal year they wouldn't have achieved these. ( I also note that those who have been heavily tutored to get grades will also struggle but that is that parents responsibility not the institution that admits them.)

OP, has your DD also been rejected from Oxbridge? It's very hard for them when these things happen.

Sometimes though, the world works in odd ways. Some years ago, my DD was rejected from Cambridge in the Jan. Always knew that was a long shot and was ok with that, Second choice was LSE, but she was rejected there too in late April and this hit her much harder - mainly because the waiting had been so drawn out.

She was offered Durham, A star, A,A, but didn't really want to go that far north. (!) She was offered Bath, but it was a reduced offer due to her EPQ (something like ABB) and she was aiming for 4 A stars (and had 11 9s at GCSE) so she felt like there would be no point trying if all she had to get was ABB. She was also offered UCL, A star, A,A, but wasn't sure about that due to accommodation issues there and what she perceived the impersonal feel of the place.

Anyway, after the LSE rejection, she decided to take a gap year and reapply. She had an amazing year travelling / working around the world. Also, she got into Oxbridge second time round. She now says thank god LSE turned her down because if they hadn't, she would be there now and would never have got out of London.

Might your DD consider a gap year if she not excited about any of her offers? Applying second time around it much easier because they're not in the midst of coursework / exams and they know where they stand grade-wise. As long as she has a solid plan for a gap year, it can be hugely beneficial. Sometimes a setback can be a redirection that happens for a reason (in retrospect at least)!

I appreciate that the blunt tool aspect of contextual applications is an issue and refinement is required. However, I struggle to understand why people can't grasp that contextualisation is not discriminating against children in highly selective schools. It is just levelling the playing fieldWhy is it so hard to understand that 3 A stars in a failing comp is a very different achievement from achieving 3 A stars in a top selective and to be considered equal you have to offer a bit more than top grades? If DC feel hard done by and can't grasp that concept, it begs the question whether they have the necessary critical thinking skills to be applying to top institutions in the first place.

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

@FlorentinePaper it’s interesting that Edinburgh gives contextual offers to anyone from a comp now, however ‘leafy’…

I think Edinburgh is quite a specific case @Peverellshire and there are a lot of politics playing a part. I was talking more generally. I am very supportive of WP but I find the Edinburgh situation quite shocking.

Def check it's not a mistake .
Chances are it's as simple as too many applicants meeting same criteria and they have had to be more random.
It's a shame she wasn't told this is the case for many many courses and universities.
It isn't a given that an excellent application gets a place

Yes, I am familiar with US universities - I've put five DCs through university in the US.

My post was in response to one from another poster who asked why a university might look for evidence of extracurricular activities even when a student has excellent academic credentials. There are general similarities in why a British and American university might look for outside interests - even the very basic aspect of time management might make one applicant pull ahead of another.