Medicine 2025 entry

[HGC2]

Inspired and slightly terrified reading the 2023 entry threads and how much prep has to go into a medicine application!

DC wants to do medicine, probably in Scotland as a Scottish student, doing well at school but this doesn't seem to be enough! School has little / no experience of applications for medicine as a not fantastic state school!

Can anyone advise what work experience / volunteering they will need (currently volunteering at sports club with hope of job)
what are the spreadsheets that people talk about?
How do you strategically apply?

I have one child at uni and they just applied and got a place, this seems like a whole other level!

However, be hopeful. RCGP today halted more PAs instead of GPs. RCP president being forced to step down as they have supported the PA expansion at the expense of doctors. Just need the GMC to refuse to regulate anyone but doctors and there may be hope.

That's not the headline message that is out there though..... it's so strange. Hopefully they catch up and have positions for those finishing this year

the guardian article says " But their deployment in our health service is billed as “essential” workforce planning – the only way to address rising patient demand and a desperate shortage of trained medics"

This is also a good article explaining the situation too. It's interesting the figures it quotes of people not getting their of location due to the new random system.
BBC article

Agree with @mumsneedwine's recommendation: Get into Medical School - 1250 UKCAT Practice Questions.

Revision wise: My DD actually used this book last year 2023 to start with (score 3200, SJT b2), the idea is to familiarise herself with the UCAT as it's a brand new content to learn and new skill required.
She didn't use it too long and was quite lighthearted with the purpose of this book, it's purely to "get to know" what the test is about and her weaker part. If you can find it, I would suggest getting it second hand (I paid only £3.60), then she move on to Medify - total time of preparing UCAT is 6 week (she did say that she feels 5 weeks is more than enough) with first 3 weeks being laid-back and still going out 1 or 2 day a week for fun.

Not sure if this is useful or not, DD did take a week off after school finish to rest and recharge as Y12 is quite a busy year before starting UCAT preparation.

She did not watch any youtube video or 1-1, according to her, what works for others might not work for her, so she prefers and managed to find way which "suits" her.

Regrading noisy in the test centre, I am not sure is it the same for everywhere but the one which she had her test, did give them ear plug and headphone (to put over the head with ear plug in).

This is what I can remember, hope this might help and good luck everyone!

@SoTiredNeedHoliday they are most certainly not needed but the NHS leaders trumpet that line. Whilst doctors are unemployed. Ridiculous situation.

Ask your MP to be there stance on this. WARNING. This report is quite frankly terrifying (GP feedback on PA)

www.rcgp.org.uk/representing-you/policy-areas/physician-associates

It’s not a dig at all. I have no interest whatsoever in that sort of post. It’s not what MN is for.

I’m one of those people who think it very unfair to try to buy advantage. I have to say I don’t think it does actually give an advantage but that’s a separate point. It’s still an attempt to skew the playing field in favour of the better off.

Selection is now so UCAT based.

DD is dyslexic, a disadvantage with timed tests, and she sat it in a central London basement on the hottest day of the year, with broken aircon. Her score was not good and despite good academics it was unlikely she would get a place.

So she treated it as a trial run, applying to the three she was likely to get an interview at, and one more.

Like Bitkom suggests, not being over invested in that years application allows you to focus on A level results. Indeed she had prioritised planning her gap year to the extent that when she got a place (three interviews in one week in late March) she asked to defer.

Did not getting a place first time round mean she was a weaker applicant? I don’t think so. Very slow processing speeds just meant she not very good at timed tests.

Lurea as MN said discussion is welcome. My posts have been in response to a question asked by another poster and are on point, not a derail. The comments are not based purely on anecdote, obviously, but they have been illustrated by examples within my own knowledge. I’m not actually sure it’s within the guidelines to proscribe what others can discuss, within a topic. But in fact I can’t be of any use with UCAT I don’t think. I stick very firmly to what I know!

I was replying from where I left off but Needmoresleep’s post is a really good exposition of the problem.

I’m not sure they’ve been screaming as such but they’ve certainly been pointing out the problems in training more medical students when moving forward there simply aren’t enough consultants to train the expanded numbers.

Which is why there are bottlenecks and junior doctors either having to tread water, move sideways to another or an allied profession, or go abroad.

@Unicornbabe06 thank you for your input. Interesting that the centre gave earplugs and headphones. It must really have been potentially disruptive. I wonder why this is the case, and why they can’t do something about the noise.

Another DC did LNAT at one of these centres, a couple of years ago. I should ask what their experience was like.

Nice to read there is some pushback re PA. They seem to be cropping up in some surgical specialities as well. Next interesting subject to watch are the medical apprenticeship ‘degrees’

And back to UCAT...

Both my ds revised using the book and the UCAT site sample tests and later loads of practice on Medentry (I think it was). They both said they found Medentry was well worth the fee and their scores improved a lot. Speed really is of the essence in UCAT and going over questions with a book or Youtube just doesn't hone the same skills as doing it under timed conditions. Personally I don't think a tutor (or parental help) wouldn't make much difference because it really is a matter of head down and practice practice practice - although we did enjoy debating some of the ridiculous SJT questions!

I don't know if it's changed but there were also comments both their years that the UCAT official site practice tests were easier than the real thing so a nasty shock for some who'd relied on only those to get a feel. If you have any budget for supporting your student I'd say one of the UCAT practice sites is a sensible spend.

You should be allowed your wear ear plugs. Not headphones but they often have them. But people will be coming and going so they need to be able to manage distractions.

DD is dyslexic, a disadvantage with timed tests

Did she get access arrangements for this?

PS all the other 'stuff' being debated on here can be used for interviews. What are the biggest issues facing the NHS ? Knowing what you're getting into and the current problems will show a good awareness that medicine is tough.

Why is this not in the manifestos

The NHS needs root and branch reform. None of the parties are prepared to state they will do what is necessary (or even probably investigate what this might be). Instead we just get meaningless promises about ‘reducing waiting times’, or ‘saving the nhs’ with no detail of how.

To be honest it would be a major black mark if any interviewee didn’t have a grasp of these issues. Have to judge things quite finely though - the whole subject could be a minefield.

Extra time does not help much with long tests where all candidates finish pretty much brain dead, and those with dyslexia have had to concentrate more. Throw in the temperature of the room and the extra time was of no use at all.

To be expected. DD was not good at CAT tests or the 11+ either. (She was over 300th on the wait list for the local grammar.) She is however a natural scientist, expected to do well at interviews and (as compensation for her dyslexia) has a very good memory.

They all have their strengths. There are a lot of different hurdles which some leap easily and some struggle with. Equally there are a lot of different careers within medicine so a chance for everyone to find their place.

Relying solely on UCAT will narrow the field. DD was accepted by Bristol when they did not use any aptitude tests. Their year was very different to the ones that followed, indeed virtually none of her peers would get a place now. They however would argue they were just as good if not better than those that followed.

@Needmoresleep more Unis are bringing in more mixed selection policies thankfully. So using GCSEs and good old Keele hanging out there with work experience. Not many people can get into Bristol these days as their UCAT has gone insane. Newcastle dropped UCAT only as they were heading the same way.

I have 2 with offers this year with 2450 UCAT so it is possible if not stellar at it. Just have to be very strategic. 🤞🤞

Bristol moved from extreme to another very rapidly. Their experience will be interesting. The later group may be brighter, with a much higher number from leading private schools, but they also appeared to be more ambitious in an individualistic sort of way.

But then I am biased because I though DDs friends were super.

@Needmoresleep 😊 think we all love our kids and their friends. Just so proud of them all qualifying through covid and just getting on with it all, while surrounded by the chaos of the NHS.

Bristol are very good at WP, so we send quite a few most years. Get onto Insight or Sutton Trust summer schools and UCAT doesn't matter. But they are v competitive these days too.

Asking candidates about doctor employment numbers/allocation of F1 places/PAs etc seems a very political thing to do which I do not think would be reasonable. They should not be recruiting students based on political views.

I doubt they’d ask that. They could ask about current issues in the NHS though. And I guess a careful answer could be formulated.

Not sure how the truth is political. But they will ask about issues facing doctors so knowing what is happening is a good thing. Knowing about foundation jobs, training numbers and GP unemployment has nothing to do with politics. It just is.

DD will do her UCAT in the same centre where I did my driving theory test a few years ago. I remember it being busy and feeling quite surprised at all the people doing different things, like construction exams. But you get your own little booth and I was able to block out my surroundings quite well. It is not quiet like exam conditions though.