Should DS do a Big 4 Apprenticeship or go to Cambridge?

[StressedaboutUni]

DS has managed to get a Big4 Apprenticeship in Accountancy and he has also managed to get an offer to read economics at Cambridge. Assuming he gets the grades, he is not sure which one to pick. Going to the apprenticeship would give him the opportunity to save 60k over three years vs 45k debt. He would also be able to become fully qualified accountant in 4 years. He would not get a degree though.
Cambridge would open doors for him in other industries that he may consider in the future such as Investment Banking or Management Consultancy.
He is really confused on what to do.

I went into the big 4 straight from school as I wanted to get going with my career and save on university fees.

After 3 months of doing audit I realised what a massive mistake that was. I stuck it out for a year, went to university, got a first class degree and walked into a career in investment banking.

I’d recommend university every time, especially Cambridge. it’s more than a degree, it’s learning about being an adult, meeting new people and expanding your horizons. He will probably get to the end of his degree and decide he wants to do something else all together.

This is a really interesting discussion, as I work with young people choosing career paths. I'd say he needs to think about how much he wants the university experience, which would be very different from the pressure and hours of an accountancy apprenticeship socially as well as intellectually. It sounds like he is leaning towards uni so I think he would regret missing the experience for money.

However, I don't think he would be as 'stuck' as some people seem to think if he did the apprenticeship route. There are plenty of different job roles and companies out there for a qualified accountant and plenty more that would use the skills, especially if he's willing to keep learning and training. He could even get a degree later if needed, albeit not from Cambridge.

I would also warn against the 'he can always do that later ' messages about big 4 recruitment. There is no guarantee what would happen later but he does have this offer now! He's done fantastically to be offered this now, which certainly does suggest he has the skills and qualities to do well after uni too, but it's not a given. He'll need to make sure he works during uni to gain experiences and skills that will make him stand out amongst all the potential graduate recruitees as much as he does now amongst the probably smaller field of 18 year olds wanting an apprenticeship. Many people on this thread seem very complacent about the power of an Oxbridge degree.

Either way though he has done fantastically to have 2 such good offers and there probably isn't a 'wrong' decision here!

@Simplelobsterhat a graduate from Cambridge is not going to struggle getting a good job.

This is hilarious! Can you imagine the personal growth, experience and networks an 18 year old school leaver gains from being immersed in a Big4 firm and the training involved in gaining Chartered status. One to one meetings with clients, winning new clients, talking with professionals aged 30-50 etc etc. The experience is phenomenal.

I think you’re overselling the early years of Big 4 life by a long chalk.

I can't imagine anything worse than being an 18 year old slogging away in a massive grey corporate. Sounds awful. There's more to life than money.

On average, an Oxbridge grad will not struggle to secure a good job but some do struggle and/or do not have a fabulous Oxbridge experience.

Some school leaver apprentices will fail exams and/or not adjust to professional working life at 18. None of us have the global stats but I suspect apprentice pass rates are as good as or better than for the average grad. This is because entry at school leaver level is highly competitive. Fewer 18 year olds are offered L6-7 apprenticeships than are offered Oxbridge places each year. To gain entry they have to pass the same tests, aged 17, that a 21 year old undergrad undertakes. Typically their 'plan B' will have been an achievable offer at a highly ranked uni on a competitive course.

Some posters point to the ability of uni to offer a chance to mature socially and emotionally. This is true. However, those successful in securing school leaver L7 roles will typically have built up paid work and other experiences outside college and be emotionally intelligent for their age. Essentially, they will have done a lot of their maturing whilst at college (this does not make them better or worse as individuals but their maturity trajectory dictates whether they are suitable for school leaver apprenticeships).

School leaver apprenticeships are absolutely not for everyone but uni is not automatically the most suitable pathway for all (even Oxbridge). However, for OP's DS, Cambridge is probably the right path. Their issue is to get their head around the funding of their studies and feel more comfortable with that.

Doing a 4 year ACA qualification with a globally recognised firm doesn't condemn them to staying there for the rest of their career.

It sounds as though Cambridge is the right route for your DS, OP. Grad positions can be harder to get at big4 than direct entry school leaver positions, as grad roles are are competed for by international students and because parents typically want bright kids to go to uni). There are also diversity/social mobility considerations at play when it comes to considering applications. But if he finishes his degree, decides ACA is the way forward and applies then I'm sure he'd have every chance.

He'd be insane not to go to Cambridge first.

Is it the sort of accountancy apprenticeship where he'll also end up with a degree? a friend's son was very bright, did one and spent a couple of chunks of two months then one year at Durham, all paid for. Ended up with a degree, no debt and very well paid.

Something like that is a great option if you end up with a degree and are not necessarily bothered about uni as an experience. Without those circumstances, possibly less good as an option.

1,000% Cambridge, it keeps so many more doors open than the apprenticeship - if he’s going for careers like investment banking or the big 4 then £100k will seem like nothing over the course of his career.

Cambridge makes him much more employable in many different areas than he would be without any degree. It’s also a wonderful experience in and of itself which he won’t ever get the chance to have again.

I think few posters are taking into account the fact that 18 year olds change their minds regarding a career. An Economics degree does keep a wider number of careers open than accountancy from age 18. If he goes to careers events and mixes with other ambitious grads he really might find he wants something very different to accountancy. Converting to law might appeal for example. He would be a high earner on that route. If he still wants to do accountancy, that door is still wide open.

One thing that occurs to me, and another pp mentioned it, is how few 18 year olds get these L7 apprenticeships. Around 3500. It’s actually a scandal. Employers use them for existing mature employees. I don’t think most of us thought that this was the spirit of the apprenticeship scheme. In reality, there’s no real choice for 18 year olds at all. Except for the very bright.

Quite honestly if the OPs son has the "right" attributes then they are going to be successful whichever path they choose.

As I said previously, I think if he isn't certain he wants a career in finance then Cambridge is going to be the better option as it keeps more doors open.

But there seem to be a lot of people commenting here who
a) have no idea what a higher apprenticeship is

b) have no idea what the big 4 is like these days (I have not had to work a single weekend in the past 10 years, and maybe worked late into the evening once or twice a year on average?)

c) no idea that there are careers at the big 4 beyond audit

I also think that whilst Cambridge is a wonderful opportunity, you'd think from this thread that it is a guarantee to be earning a 6 figure salary within 3 years. Of course some people will manage that. The vast majority won't, and I know several Cambridge graduates who are in fairly standard jobs now.

I'd also add that the people I work with who did higher apprenticeships are completely indistinguishable from those who joined as graduates - after the first few years and you are promoted to Manager or above, it's irrelevant whether you joined as a higher apprentice, a graduate, or from a completely different route such as having previously worked at HMRC.

Actually @NotDonna , I was in indeed referring to the Level 7 Apprenticeship type leading to an ACA, as that is the route I chose and did. It has always existed in some shape or form.

The posters @Oncetheystartschool and @DelurkingAJ worded it a lot better than I did. Rather than ceiling I should have used the term additional exposure.

What I was trying to put across is that University is a time of personal growth and that period of 18-21 can never be taken back in terms of widening horizons - outside of attaining the profit motive.

Work and Workplace Politics will always be there and it's a long slog to 70, which is worth thinking about in the decision making process. Plus, not everyone in Big 4 wants to or gets to be Partner and there is a whole world out there unlocked by the Big 4 credentials.

One notable thing, is that when the Grads join, they come with a different slant of experience and when they do Qualify, as well as being an Accountant they will have the background of Economists, Historians, Geologists, Pharmacology or whatever their degree discipline was. (Not to mention Alumni links which will be big with his other option of Cambridge in particular.) 'Talking Shop' is important in business and can drive future career options and decisions.

I wonder if this is the reason a lot of the Firms started recruiting outside of the strictly Business and Finance Degrees.

Having said that, it's a wonderful position to be in, having the two options and well done to your son for getting this far. Ultimately, it will be great whichever route he chooses based on his personal preferences and where he sees himself in the future.

It's great you started this thread for him and others to read, as there are very good arguments for and against, to allow a balanced decision making process.

I'd also add that the people I work with who did higher apprenticeships are completely indistinguishable from those who joined as graduates - after the first few years and you are promoted to Manager or above, it's irrelevant whether you joined as a higher apprentice, a graduate, or from a completely different route such as having previously worked at HMRC

Maybe in a work context. I have so many friends who I met at university and the older we get the more we love to meet up and laugh about it. I don't have that shared social history with the employees of the first big company I worked for, in fact I am not in touch with any of them apart from a few distant Facebook friends.

Firms have always recruited from any degree. An accounting and finance degree is the exception generally and not the rule

OP Which college? Some of the richer ones give very generous support to students, and all of them do something. Have you talked to the college about what options there might be for financial support? They are, in my experience, very keen and usually able to help. They really don’t want to lose excellent students from lower income backgrounds for reasons which they could easily solve.

Which is good to know for all considering the Big 4, Thanks for confirming.

Equally though I'm not in touch with any friends from uni 20 years on and was often quite unhappy socially there despite loving my degree. Uni isn't the 'making friends for life' experience for everyone and it's a lot of pressure on young people to suggest it is.

I made better and longer lasting friends on my first full time job, so it's impossible to predict how that side of things will turn out either way.

If he is a bright inquisitive mind theres nothing that could match the social and life experience of the Cambridge experience in terms of the bright minds from all different disciplines that will be enriching him there from his peers. Plenty of time to get into the 'real world experience'later! Definitely the uni option, if he gets the grades.

Cambridge degree is a better, broader option. Debt and logistics aside, this is a great opportunity to grow his mind at one of the world's best universities. There is so much career /social capital attached to having an Oxbridge degree, there will always be a way to utilise this.
Another reason for the degree is it will keep his options broad. Economics is an especially good one for this. I know Bright people who have been successful accountants and tired of it less than ten years in the role.

'Uni isn't the 'making friends for life' experience for everyone and it's a lot of pressure on young people to suggest it is.'
While I'd generally agree on this for most universities I know anecdotally that there are special opportunities for Oxbridge students, excursions, trips abroad, immersive study groups etc where I think you'd definitely make close friends.

Cambridge.

@StressedaboutUni

My son is doing an engineering degree apprenticeship having decide to turn down uni places. A level grades comparable with what your DS must be predicted.
We took money out of the equation when deciding. I felt this was important as the numbers involved are terrifying to a teenager.

Student loans will be repaid, yes, but only in full if he becomes a very high earner. As a teacher I would currently be paying £500 a year. Watch Martin Lewis on you tube on the matter to reframe the money argument.
Repayment is a % of income not loan an so affordable.

DS just felt he wanted to get stuck in to work and is loving it. Big company, intake of 17 apprentices so enough to have a good social life.

He wobbled on results day mainly as friends were all off to uni, but on thrashing it out decided he wouldn't go to uni this sept anyway as too rushed.
So took the apprenticeship, with the back up plan of reapplying to uni if he didn't like it.

Would an alternative strategy if the degree itself is important be to look at (e.g.) PWC degree apprenticeships instead? Not sure if they are currently recruiting.

@Ontheup75 Another apprenticeship? He’s not sure he wants this one at Big4, or Cambridge, so throwing the dice again is surely a risk too far?

When posters say average salaries are attained by Cambridge grads: well obviously! Some want lower paid careers. They don’t care about 6 figure salaries. Those that do, and are studying the degrees where that’s a possibility, they are well positioned to be successful. Economics is one of the best degree to take for earnings from an elite university. There really should not be barriers to high earnings if that’s what he wants.

Well done to your DS. He has done really well to secure two very competitive options.

My DS looked carefully at accountancy degree apprenticeships at 18 but none of the degree/uni combinations really inspired him. He went to Cambridge instead and is now a finalist. He has never regretted his decision. He has had a fantastic experience re the course, his college, friends and sport and has secured his first choice of graduate banking job for September.