Should DS do a Big 4 Apprenticeship or go to Cambridge?

[StressedaboutUni]

DS has managed to get a Big4 Apprenticeship in Accountancy and he has also managed to get an offer to read economics at Cambridge. Assuming he gets the grades, he is not sure which one to pick. Going to the apprenticeship would give him the opportunity to save 60k over three years vs 45k debt. He would also be able to become fully qualified accountant in 4 years. He would not get a degree though.
Cambridge would open doors for him in other industries that he may consider in the future such as Investment Banking or Management Consultancy.
He is really confused on what to do.

@NotDonna don't get me wrong I think accountancy apprenticeships are a great route. I'm ACA myself and recruit trainees as part of my role. But for someone who is Cambridge calibre there is no need to rush, why not do the degree as well. He'll end up a high earner anyway, but will have the benefit of a Cambridge degree and that will always be hugely attractive in the job marketplace. Grad recruitment is often blind (so they won't necessarily know which uni he has been to) but subsequent jobs won't be. He can have the Cambridge experience as well as the phenomenal training experience you rightly talk about. Best of both worlds.

Agree with so many posts here - and absolutely if he is not certain he wants to be an accountant, definitely Cambridge.

But what on earth is the "ceiling" people keep referring to in terms of doing a higher apprenticeship? I'm currently in the Big 4, and work with several people who did that route, and are absolutely on line to make Partner.... there is no ceiling if you have the drive ambition and ability

@Motherhubbardscupboard but you could say there’s no rush for any calibre? Do you not think a persons work experience, abilities, attributes etc once they’re qualified ACA is more important than where they went to uni several years previously? Oxbridge calibre is likely to shine whether he actually attends or not, don’t you think?

@NotDonna I agree my advice could apply to anyone. But there is a certain cache about an Oxbridge degree in particular (and no I don't have one!). And yes maybe he would shine anyway, but what if he doesn't, and accountancy isn't actually the right career for him. With a degree behind him it would open up a whole world of graduate opportunities.

My DD got into one of the big 4 as a grad for accountancy - he should go to Cambridge imo.

Should add once she started she decided that accountancy was not for her so even more so i'd recommend that your DS go his degree first.

Cambridge 100%. It’s about so much more than employability. Also deciding to be an accountant at 18 is quite young, especially as not having a degree may make it harder to switch. If you son is clever and intellectually curious, he might find it quite boring.

Cambridge, he'll have the opportunity to enter a big 4 grad program if all goes well at uni. Agree with others saying it's not debt, it's more like a graduate tax. Could he intern at a big 4, or other organisation during summer break? However, consider the toxic culture at those large firms.....slave labour during tax time. Pretty rough environment for an 18 year old with no resilience.

www.afr.com/companies/professional-services/ey-to-review-culture-practices-and-safety-after-suicide-20220915-p5bia9

Very well done to your DS!

Cambridge without doubt.

No contest, do the degree at Cambridge.

My brother is there and the opportunities are incredible has has lined up amazing post grad internships.

If he does the Cambridge option @StressedaboutUni do they offer a year in industry? Regardless of where a degree is from some work experience goes a long way.

Thats worrying about the toxic culture you mention @Hop27 that hasn’t been the experience for my DD (the month or so of busy season is busy but not toxic). I think her Big4 firm look after them quite well. They’re pretty social too.

This is just not true.

Accountancy forms the springboard to many different roles and jobs. The Big 4 environment will open doors both in corporates (for whom he will be working) and globally (within the organisation)

All Big 4 firms have tax, transactions and consulting businesses which attract accountants and many colleagues I have worked with over the years move to industry or government and then boomerang back to partnership.

I've worked at two Big 4 for over 25 years so happy to answer any questions.

And frankly speaking I'd pick the apprenticeship for my children hands down. No debt and massive global opportunities! Working while you learn! Exposure to many different companies and clients. Its great fun, very dynamic and very fast moving.

Agree.

Obviously Cambridge! Absolute no brainer.

Those numbers will seem like peanuts compared to salary he could command within a year or so of uni

Much much better opportunities.

After three years in careers like banking you're on £100k easily. He really shouldn't think of the student debt and should 100% go to Cambridge

I think if he isn't set on Cambridge he should decline it, there are plenty of other equally able students who would love that opportunity.

No contest - take the apprenticeship. No debt to pay off, and a guaranteed, well paid job at the end of it.

I have a degree in economics from Cambridge and am a Big 4 qualified accountant. I vote Cambridge - if only for the enjoyment of the experience - I loved my time at university...and it's a pretty cool thing to have on your CV.

If he's that calibre of candidate, hanging this life decision on £100k is short sighted. It's small fry in the grand scheme of things. He needs to go to Cambridge.

100% Cambridge
far more flexibility in what you can do with that degree vs the apprenticeship
plus life experiences and networking
your son may well decide he doesn’t want to be an accountant- the degree opens up lots of great pathways that he wouldn’t as easily discover or access on the apprentice
the opportunity cost of not going to Cambridge is enormous

He's going to be earning 100k+ over a 40+ year career (if that's what he wants). 60k is neither here nor there. Nearly every one of his contemporaries will have the same debt.

He will have really rich and interesting experiences at Cambridge. Learn amazing things. Meet people who will broaden his horizons and provide connections.

I've worked for one of the Big 4 and let me assure you, it is Snoresville. A grey and regimented existence. How could you condemn an 18 year old to that for the rest of their life? He wouldn't even have a degree..so how would he escape?

There are two aspects to this thread: firstly, what is appropriate for OP's DS and, secondly, the relative merits of school leaver L7 ACA vs Oxbridge.

In relation to the former, OP's DS appears drawn to the apprenticeship primarily as a means to reduce the cost risks associated with 'career launch'. This is not a sensible basis upon which to embark on a school leaver L7 ACA. @NotDonna and I have DC taking this route; they actively want this path over uni. OP's DS should probably err towards Cambridge because of their ambivalence towards the apprenticeship route, not because Cambridge is 'obviously' better.

With regards the wider debate, it is much more nuanced. As @CoQ10and others say, there are non-grads at all levels working their way up the Big4 and elsewhere. Oxbridge can offer an amazing package of experiences during and after uni, and I say that as an Oxbridge grad. However, a L7 school leaver apprentice can build a package of experiences that, for them, is no less attractive; it is just that they have to take the initiate to a greater extent in doing so - but typically taking the initiative is what they want to do.

This is hilarious! Can you imagine the personal growth, experience and networks an 18 year old school leaver gains from being immersed in a Big4 firm and the training involved in gaining Chartered status. One to one meetings with clients, winning new clients, talking with professionals aged 30-50 etc etc. The experience is phenomenal.

I can imagine it as I've done it at a big four firm (although, frankly, it's not as glamorous as that sounds). But it's entirely different to a university experience and not comparable. And he can have uni and the ACA which is surely the best of both worlds.

If you want to go into investment banking after your ACA, being a graduate will make a difference. You'll be competing with lots of ACAs from big four firms and being a Cambridge grad would be an advantage.

My DS works for one of the big 4. I think not many 18 year olds get through the apprenticeship - it's very demanding and requires skills that they haven't had a chance to hone at university. I know for my own son that his degree helped him immeasurably during his training - not the specific subject but the skills he developed. School tends to hand feed a lot to kids, whereas university requires independent learning, being able to read and pick out salient information quickly, summarising information, working with other people who aren't friends, presentation skills. Even internships during the summer - all of it helps to hone what you need when working for a demanding employer.
I wouldn't want my child to turn down Cambridge - he can always work for one of the big 4 afterwards if that's his wish.

I would worry that in years to come he would regret not going to Cambridge, particularly when he starts working with people who have Oxbridge degrees.